Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner
41 - 55 of 55 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
12,969 Posts
SilasCL said:
Seems ripe for a permaban...
No, but just stick to the points if you can.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
969 Posts
That '89 tour was the moment where class and style in cycling died in favor of Lemond's superhero looking future of funny hats and flashy technology. And then Lance evolved it further, into the era where the body is also a machine to be modified.

I wish we could turn back time and give that one to Fignon and maybe today's cycling world would have much more class.
 

·
always right sometimes
Joined
·
1,832 Posts
Is "permaban" a new type of PED? I can't believe you are all still debating all of this. I hit LA overload a month ago. I have become pretty desensitized to the whole idea of doping in pro cycling. Every time I see ANY pro athlete now that would benefit from an endurance enhancing drug, I just assume that are doped. It is kind of funny that I can look at a male (female?) tennis player now and think.."yep...why not?" Every single pro NBA player could benefit greatly too....so....why not? And on and on and on and on......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,674 Posts
Perico said:
ultra- I looked through your long winded posts and saw very few facts and what ones you posted were spun to your obvious LA-hate agenda. Oh, what the heck, I'll rip your nonsense to pieces even though I know you will spin and move the goalposts in order to try to claim you are right...as you always do.


He has made comments, just nothing until LA started winning Tours and all his comments are only "poor me, I am a victim" comments.

.


So you admit Lemond made comments first. Thanks for admitting I am correct...even if you can't stand to see it.

1) One problem, Lemond starting talking focusing on saying or implying LA is/was doping as soon as he started winning, not after questions arose or FL got busted. Nice try to spin.
It was 2 years before he commented on LA's win & the revelation that LA was working with Ferrari.
2) Yet they ask people like Hinault and Indurain about riders who aren't French and Spanish, respectively, when they are on French speaking or Spanish speaking stations. Keep trying.
Fair point. Although Lemond was the natural "go to" person as far as English speaking publications were concerned, especially when the story was LA.


Hmmm, some of he things you say sound exactly like things said about LA, but you are cool with saying them about others and not LA.


Are you saying Lemond used EPO or simply creating an excuse for GL changing his excuse for getting old and slow that a child could do better then?
No. I took the trouble to read up a bit on Mitochondrial Myopathy. Apart from the fact that it is hereditary, it also is a degenerative & debilitating disease. It makes sense that Lemond was not suffering from this as more than a decade after retirement, he shows no signs of the disease, let alone it advancing. In the light of the Gewiss team & Ferrari's work, the Festina Affair as well as the general information that has emerged regarding EPO it makes sense to re-evaluate that diagnosis.

Yet every thread you spend all your time going after LA, spinning, playing ight with the truth, attacking people who don't hate LA, etc.
Now about each point:

1) It's called specialization, it's common in all sports these days. Times change. You would be surprised at how many current riders do short seasons focusing on their specialty and certain races in particular.
There's specialisation and then there's specialisation. LA hardly rode before late April and stopped by 1st August. That's barely a third of the season. No Giro, no World's, No LBL, Amstel, Fleche, Lombardia. AS is a GT rider yet he's at all of these as is Cadel Evans. As a fan I don't expect rides to all flog themselves from February to October, but 3 months FFS??
2) Where is the hate for TT specialists or classics specialists not riding all the climbing races?
It's not hate it's disappointment. I remember LA in San Sebastian in 92 finishing last and then winning the next edition. Gilbert & Cancellara ride a season that starts earlier and finishes later than most GT contenders. Quite often their role changes during the GT's to domestique/stage hunter. LA never reversed the roles outside of the Daupine when he was on his Tour offensive.
3) I keep looking for proof of this yet never find more then hearsay. Can you provide some definitive proof?
LA "failed" a test for cortisone in the 99 Tour, but had a TUE. Only problem was he repeatedly stated that he had never had a TUE. Walsh made the claim in LA Confidentiel that it was backdated. Instead of suing for defamation in France, LA merely sought to block it being published in English. Begs the question that something ain't right. If a falsehood is published why not defend your reputation vigorously?
4) Now this is petty, especially if you choose to look at all of the story.
I do. His actions were that of a bully, plain & simple. He did not act in a manner befitting a Grand Champion.
5) LA was wrong to ride him down but, from everything I have read and seen, Simeoni (a proven doper) burned a lot of bridges in cycling simply by being an ass.
See 4
6) Asinine. Politics have no place here, so get over it.
It's a simile. LA has the same black or white attitude, there's no middle ground.
7) I'd say this one is essentially you proving that you hate him. Probably the dumbest comment you have ever made around here...and that is saying a lot.
The sport was moving on, there were different faces on the front of Procycling & Cyclesport. Fewer overly long socks too!


P.S.- For both you and Alex, Lemond is the reason I started racing back in the mid 80's.
Glad he inspired you.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
239 Posts
pacificaslim said:
That '89 tour was the moment where class and style in cycling died in favor of Lemond's superhero looking future of funny hats and flashy technology. And then Lance evolved it further, into the era where the body is also a machine to be modified.

I wish we could turn back time and give that one to Fignon and maybe today's cycling world would have much more class.
1) Lemond simply continued the evolution of technology that was already happening in cycling and was going to happen whether it was done by him or Fignon or Indurain, etc. Oh and check out some pics of ITT and TTT's of previous years and you will see people like Fignon wearing "funny hats."

2) Fignon showed a lack of class many times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,674 Posts
Perico said:
2) Fignon showed a lack of class many times.
Once or twice he lost it with a journalist or two but quite often they were asking for it.

Nice thing is that he and Guimard gave us the structure that virtually all modern teams use to this day. In 87 they were ahead of their time by several years.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
239 Posts
ultimobici said:
As are you!

Rude, patronising & incapable of debate without resorting to cheap insults.
If you are going to continue describing yourself don;t forget to add, spinning, playing light with the truth, moving the goalposts and afraid to admit when you are wrong.

I am done with you on this topic, but I am sure you will need to get in a last word, so enjoy yourself.
 

·
Large blurry non-mythical
Joined
·
1,236 Posts
"Did so."
"Did not!"
"Yeah huh!"
"No way-ay!"
:rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,674 Posts
spade2you said:
Your bias could not be more obvious.
I make no apologies for the fact. I preferred it when a champion rode a proper season. That's one thing Lemond gave us that I am not overly keen on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,085 Posts
ultimobici said:
I make no apologies for the fact. I preferred it when a champion rode a proper season. That's one thing Lemond gave us that I am not overly keen on.
While Greg Lemond became the poster child of "modern training" and peaking, if it weren't him, someone else would have eventually stumbled on to this training strategy eventually. Perhaps it's unfortunate, but it is what it is and it works. Racing is about winning and you'd be hard pressed to stay competitive against specialists. I don't blame Saecco for the lead out train.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,674 Posts
spade2you said:
While Greg Lemond became the poster child of "modern training" and peaking, if it weren't him, someone else would have eventually stumbled on to this training strategy eventually. Perhaps it's unfortunate, but it is what it is and it works. Racing is about winning and you'd be hard pressed to stay competitive against specialists. I don't blame Saecco for the lead out train.
I realise that progress is unstoppable, but the trend to shorten & shorten the season to the point that some have is a shame and devalues their achievements a little IMO.

As for Saeco inventing the lead-out train, not quite - they borrowed the idea from Rik Van Looy's Flandria who are acknowledged to have been the first train named the "Red Guard"

http://velonews.competitor.com/2006/04/news/paris-roubaix-boonen-in-the-tracks-of-rik-van-looy_9706

Cippolini & Saeco did take it to another level though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,085 Posts
ultimobici said:
I realise that progress is unstoppable, but the trend to shorten & shorten the season to the point that some have is a shame and devalues their achievements a little IMO.

As for Saeco inventing the lead-out train, not quite - they borrowed the idea from Rik Van Looy's Flandria who are acknowledged to have been the first train named the "Red Guard"

http://velonews.competitor.com/2006/04/news/paris-roubaix-boonen-in-the-tracks-of-rik-van-looy_9706

Cippolini & Saeco did take it to another level though.
Flandria. I haven't heard that name in a super long time. I'd say I almost forgot about them and the original red guard, but I honestly forgot.

I'd agree that it's somewhat unfortunate that most cyclists have evolved into 1 trick ponies for a limited time, but until the competition changes, specialists are the way it will always be.

Given the minimal talent on my own part and limited training schedule, I certainly appreciate the idea of a nice specialty and picking a time to be on my best form. I have my early season race with the inly hilltop finish, then I'll switch to TT mode for mid summer. Sure, I could do better overall if I didn't try to specialize, but this method gives me a better shot at the podium, in theory at least.
 
41 - 55 of 55 Posts
Top