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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
:eek:

Ullrich out. Basso out.

Vinokourov IN. Millar IN. Simoni IN (who's ET now, beeatch)

Gee, all the top names of pro cycling are implicated in doping. HMMMMM. Nah, Lance must be clean. He's, uh such a good guy, you know his stuff with cancer, he dated a rock star, he's on TV a lot...DOH!

Let's be real; "hard work" and "dedication to the bike" and "alpine training camps" do make a difference. BUT, what really makes it at the top level...a 49% hematocrit level.

One day, guys like Bassons, Manzano, Roux, Simeoni, yeah even LeMond will be proven correct. Being made a pariah by the procycling establishment is a result of backlash by an institution and sport where systemic and systematic doping is the norm.
 

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Rouleur said:
:eek:

Ullrich out. Basso out.

Vinokourov IN. Millar IN. Simoni IN (who's ET now, beeatch)

Gee, all the top names of pro cycling are implicated in doping. HMMMMM. Nah, Lance must be clean. He's, uh such a good guy, you know his stuff with cancer, he dated a rock star, he's on TV a lot...DOH!

Let's be real; "hard work" and "dedication to the bike" and "alpine training camps" do make a difference. BUT, what really makes it at the top level...a 49% hematocrit level.

One day, guys like Bassons, Manzano, Roux, Simeoni, yeah even LeMond will be proven correct. Being made a pariah by the procycling establishment is a result of backlash by an institution and sport where systemic and systematic doping is the norm.

It IS ironic. But LeMond is still a bitter old jealous man. Even if everything he says is true.
And by the same logic, he must have been on something too. Blood doping is nothing new - it was around since 1970ies, at least. If you think Lance was a doper, than you have to extend the same courtesy to Badger, LeMond and even Merckx. The better question is - if everyone is using "unfair advantage" - does it mean we are back to the level playing field?

Another problem with your argument - "hard work" and "dedication" and "training camps" still matter just as much, if maybe not more. You need to make sure others don't get unfair advantage with doping, but you won't get far with just talent and doping.

If you think about it - this may actually create an even more "level playing field". Some drugs allow you to recover from rides quicker, so you can put in more training. It may sound like a controversial argument, but if everyone starts using drugs, the riders who are more motivated and put in more training can make up for differences in natural talent.
 

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do you really think that we should seek a level playing field? "Ivan is so much more talented than me, he should only get to pedal with one leg!"

it isn't about level playing fields when you are a professional sports player. it is about making tons of money! football players don't get that big without steroids. baseball players do it too. soccer players dope, cyclists dope. they have all been doing it for years (and some get away with it for their entire career).

my vote is to let them F up their bodies as much as possible. i don't care about their well-being. i just want to watch them do battle. after all, we are most amused by carnage, not some prissy boy who was too honest to "cheat".

inject them all!!! amphetamines! pot belge! epo! steroids! who cares? not me. let them ride their bikes. maybe their heads will pop off on TV. now that would be entertainment!
 

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mechmann said:
do you really think that we should seek a level playing field? "Ivan is so much more talented than me, he should only get to pedal with one leg!"

it isn't about level playing fields when you are a professional sports player. it is about making tons of money! football players don't get that big without steroids. baseball players do it too. soccer players dope, cyclists dope. they have all been doing it for years (and some get away with it for their entire career).

my vote is to let them F up their bodies as much as possible. i don't care about their well-being. i just want to watch them do battle. after all, we are most amused by carnage, not some prissy boy who was too honest to "cheat".

inject them all!!! amphetamines! pot belge! epo! steroids! who cares? not me. let them ride their bikes. maybe their heads will pop off on TV. now that would be entertainment!
I agree! Let's see what human body is capable of - with drugs, doctors etc. Let them use whatever they want. It's their bodies, I just want to watch some good bike racing.
 
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Another freaking Armstrong thread - give it a rest dammit! He's retired, who cares? This tour and the spanish bust have nothing to do with LA! I'm not being a fan boy, I'm just tired of hearing his name when there are more interesting things afoot.
 

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mechmann said:
do you really think that we should seek a level playing field? "Ivan is so much more talented than me, he should only get to pedal with one leg!"

it isn't about level playing fields when you are a professional sports player. it is about making tons of money! football players don't get that big without steroids. baseball players do it too. soccer players dope, cyclists dope. they have all been doing it for years (and some get away with it for their entire career).

my vote is to let them F up their bodies as much as possible. i don't care about their well-being. i just want to watch them do battle. after all, we are most amused by carnage, not some prissy boy who was too honest to "cheat".

inject them all!!! amphetamines! pot belge! epo! steroids! who cares? not me. let them ride their bikes. maybe their heads will pop off on TV. now that would be entertainment!

LOL!!! I'm beging to like your style. I'd like it to be clean and all but I don't think it's realistic. They've always been doping. The dope has just become way more sophisticated. It used to be wine and booze to ease the pain and monotony. Cigarets to open the lungs before that next mountain pass. The amphetamines and other pharma from the '60's and '70's. I hate all of the sanctimony about purity because it's a bunch bull sh!t.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Not an Armstrong thread

AJL said:
Another freaking Armstrong thread - give it a rest dammit! He's retired, who cares? This tour and the spanish bust have nothing to do with LA! I'm not being a fan boy, I'm just tired of hearing his name when there are more interesting things afoot.

I just saw the irony in the current situation at the Tour. Sorry, the Armstrong dig was too hard to resist...but it demonstrates irony nonetheless.

Doping is part of the sport. It has been part of the sport for a long time and is part of the fabric and culture of professional cycling.

When everyone dopes, then it is a level playing field. Yes, training and hard work make a difference. Expertise in doping techniques and having the financial resources to commit to doping also make a difference.

SO how do we reconcile this. Regardless of my acid tone, I do love cycling. I wouldn't be on this message board if I didn't. I am absolutely discouraged by this. Not just from a sporting view, but from long term implications to OUR sport.

I really wanted to see an exciting and open race WITH Ullrich and Basso. But I am more fearful of any potential withdrawl of major financial backing to the sport. This can only diminish the our sport.

I guess the hope is that it will ultimately "clean up" cycling, but I am not that optimistic.

I admit, I'd rather have OLN's TdF 24/7 versus ESPN 1/2 hour coverage at 3am.
 
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