[Riverfrog]

I am considering one of these to replace my current SPDs. I like the metal body of the Ultegra's, but also like the different cleats for the Keo's to select float. I would like to hear any stories, good or bad, of either pedal. I can get these for the same price, so money is not a factor here. Thanks very much!

Ben

 

[stevecaz]

Go with the Keo!! - look here

If you are looking at the Keo Sprint just out of cost considerations, then look at Probikekit.com, a UK retailer. Keo Carbons for $120 Shipped. That is $100 off any US retailers price. By the way, Probikekit.com has excellent reviews in this forum. People wonder how they do this price. Well, it is often the case that products made in Europe are much cheaper within Europe. If you've been in a european sports shop you know. The Keo Sprint is $83 shipped.

Now for your question. The difference between the Keo Carbon and the Keo Sprint is the Carbon has 2 sets of ball bearings + 1 needle bearing, while the Sprint has 1 ball bearing and 1 needle. The Sprint has a slightly lower release tension range. The Sprint is only 20 grams heavier. And of course you can get the Sprint in Red. The main Look website is horrible, and they don't even link you to their Keo specific website at www.look-keo.com which has some good info.

As for Look vs. Ultegra. Here are my reasons for Keo: 1) the Keo is a favorite among pro racers who typically are allowed to ride any pedal - must be something good there. 2) The Look with Delta cleat has been the standard since it came out in 1984 (22 years ago!!) - they must have done something right. 3) The Keo is essentially the exact same design, just a bit better 4) I reaplced my 1988 PP66 Look's, which still had the silkiest bearings of any bearing on any part of any bike I've owned. 5) Shimano has come out with how many designs over the past 10 years?? 6) The Keo may likely be the Look pedal for the next 20 years - you may not need another pedal for as long. 7) Shimano will be on design SPD-SL-R-XYZ by then and their cleat may long since been obsolete. In 10 years and probably even 20 you will absolutely see Look Keo cleats on store shelves. 8) the SPD-SL design is really just a Look rip-off, Shimano was just tired of paying royalties back when they were licensing the Look design, found out SPD sucks for road, and needed something that works like Look 9) The Keo is lighter. 10) they are still new enough that you'll have people saying "Oooo, are those the new Keo's".

Well I wrote a book. Get the Keo.

 

[filtersweep]

The irony is that the Ultegra were better than standard Look pedals. the rest I really can't argue with.


How much are Keo cleats? The Shimano are on the spendy side.

 

[Chris Oz]

Ultegra's are good

I recently replaced my old Look delta pedals for Ultegra's pedals and have been very happy with the switch. My Look delta pedal's creaked something shocking once the cleat was a little worn so I finally dumped them for new pedal's.

I looked at both Keo and Shimano road pedal. I when with the Shimano, because the cheaper Look Keo pedals have bad review (fall apart, something never change for Look), they are mainly plastic and you still can't easily walk on the cleats. The Ultegra pedal were relatively cheap from Probikekit, had metal bodies, you can walk in them and I wanted to try something different. I believe that Keos have finally licked the creak problem so that isn't a deciding factor. Similarly both pedals have floating cleat options.

Personally I wouldn't put to much chop on what the pro's ride. They don't pay for their stuff and could throw their cleats, pedal ... away after every race if they really want.

In truth they are both Shimano and Look Keos are modern pedal designs, the Look Delta cleat is not. The Look pedal are possibly lighter, but made from plastic. Either way you will most probably be happy.

 

[stevecaz]

I'm going to follow up my long post and agree with Oz that you will be happy with either choice.

As for the Look Delta design, I've been one who hasn't experienced any creaking since I bought them in 1988. I've tried a bunch of pedals since seeking lighter weight (but not the newer SPD-SL design), and always ended up putting the Look's back on. I wore my cleats down until the front lip was paper thin before replacing them, and I still never had creaking problems. The Keo is really the same design, just modified slightly to allow for the lower profile Keo pedal. And as I said, the SPD-SL design is essentially the same as Look. Look cleats are at most $18 full retail, so only a couple bucks cheapers than SPD-SL.

As for pro's tossing pedals out at will, thats not entirely true. Some teams like Discovery make all riders use sponsor Shimano's pedals for ease to the mechanics. But many teams understand how important pedal comfort is, and since they can't really be seen on TV and photos, riders are allowed to chose their pedal - and their saddle. Once you find the pedal you like, most people are very attached to them. Pro teams do not just toss out money. Unless the pedal breaks, a rider isn't getting a new one just because. Plus, the pedal you know and trust is always better than a new pedal, even if the exact same kind. Read the reviews, both are highly rated. But you need to know when to ignore the overly good and bad reviews, and know that all products will have a few bad ones made that fail.

 

[Chris Oz]

As for pro's tossing pedals out at will, thats not entirely true. Some teams like Discovery make all riders use sponsor Shimano's pedals for ease to the mechanics. But many teams understand how important pedal comfort is, and since they can't really be seen on TV and photos, riders are allowed to chose their pedal - and their saddle. Once you find the pedal you like, most people are very attached to them. Pro teams do not just toss out money. Unless the pedal breaks, a rider isn't getting a new one just because. Plus, the pedal you know and trust is always better than a new pedal, even if the exact same kind. Read the reviews, both are highly rated. But you need to know when to ignore the overly good and bad reviews, and know that all products will have a few bad ones made that fail.

Sorry I wasn't trying to suggest that Look pedals are crap (well in my experience the cheep one are). I was trying to suggest that that pros do not have to care about cleat or pedal longevity. Additionally they always get the expensive pedals and replace parts when they need it. In contrast most of us are more budget conscious and may be more concerned about longevity. Hence just because a pro rides it does not mean it will alway be a choice for the rest of us.

By the way I agree that you have to be careful with review. Most people who buy a product will usually say it is great to justify their purchase. Similarly extremely bad review are often the product of who have had an uncharacteristly bad experience or are serial complainers.

Either way it usually pays not to buy a the entry level pedal as you will get what you pay for. That goes for Shimano, Look, Time .... Having said that some times the entry level product is great value and all you need.

 

[Srexy]

Both pedals do their job well. The main gripe that I've observed is that the Keo cleats wear out quickly. I have a set of Ultegras and a set of Dura-Ace. Both have served me well for 2yrs now and I'm still on my original set of cleats - they are easy to walk on and the occasional trip upstairs across the hardwood floors (glasses, keys, bidons forgotten etc.) doesn't land me in the dog-house w/the trouble and strife.

Keo's are lighter and available all day on Probikekit for a good price. Ebay has the Shimano pedals for a decent price also.

 

[Suddha]

Look cleat compatibility

I recently bought some Look Keos with the gray cleats but I want a bit more float. I have a set of red Look cleats in a box from years ago (came with my PP296?). Can I use the older Look cleats with the Keo pedals?

Thanks.

 

[Woolbury]

I just swithched to Keo Sprints from som old model LooK and I really like them. 3 big improvements-weight, the grey cleats have just the right amount of float, and very easy to get in and out-much more direct than my old Looks. Great pedal, I wouldn't hesitate using them, though I've never tried the Ultegras.

 

[CC09]

suddha - no you cant use the delta cleats with the keo pedals (for reasons why, go to www.look-keo.com )

i just got a pair of keo sprints. over my old spd style they are a huge upgrade. i use the grey cleats. i try to avoid walking on them but in 3 weeks they have only 3 visible scratches to the cleat. i just ordered a pair of backup cleats w/ cleat covers for $15, so i can walk around in them without fear. i really like the pedal, crisp, clean, good power, no problems. plus they come in red.

 

[aliensporebomb]

Thinking....

I'll tell you, I had no idea that the SPD-SLs were essentially based on the
Look pedal design.

I found this out when I brought my road shoes to spin class and found to
my astonishment my SPD-SL shoe/cleat interfaced perfectly with the Look
pedals on the spin bikes at the club. And clipping out was even easier
than the Shimano Ultegra SPD-SL pedals I have on the bike now.
It was an epiphany.

Then I read later that apparently Lance had a pair of old Look pedals that
he just loved to death and Shimano finally came up with a design that is
more or less a Look-clone.

The great thing is if I need to ride someones bike that has Look pedals
I can do it. Or the SPD-SL's. I haven't tried the KEO pedals but if they
are as nice as the pedals on the spin bikes at the club, I might switch
at some point. The SPD-SL pedals are very nice, but they're still pretty
new so they're a little harder to get out of than the Looks.

 

[stevecaz]

Speedplay has a pedal "museum" on their website

Some interesting pedals I had forgotten all about, and some real early ones I never knew about. Not all are on there, but you will see just how many Look clones there were. And in the end, Look still stands - and certainly not for their marketing skills.

 

[Riverfrog]

Thanks for the connemts guys. The information really helps.

Thanks!

Ben

 

[tobu]

The SPD-SL is not the same as the old look design. You might be able to use spd-sl cleat on a look pedal, but the engagement is a lot less secure than on a real spd-sl pedal. One of the improvements of SPD-SL over look is that when you pull back on SPD-SL, you can't force open the cleat retention mechanism since the bottom part of the cleat runs into the pedal body. On a Look pedal, (keo or otherwise), if you pull back hard enough you can actually pull out. Of course, you can pull out of any pedal with an exaggerated twisting motion on the pedal stroke.

I'm sure keo's are fine pedals, but historically Look has had quality control problems with the bearings. The bearings often became sloppy after a little use. The Shimano Dura Ace Look style pedals were often prized in the peloton because they had the standard look design along with some of the best bearings ever produced. They were in production for only a few years, and I know many riders who hoarded a stock of those pedals.

 

[The The]

7) Shimano will be on design SPD-SL-R-XYZ by then and their cleat may long since been obsolete. In 10 years and probably even 20 you will absolutely see Look Keo cleats on store shelves. 8) the SPD-SL design is really just a Look rip-off, Shimano was just tired of paying royalties back when they were licensing the Look design, found out SPD sucks for road, and needed something that works like Look.

I can't argue with most of your comments. Shimano has been through more pedal designs than Liza Minelli has husbands, but that should not diminish the spectacular pedal that is the SPD-SL.

The SPD-SL is -- hopefully! -- here to stay. When it was released it was better, lighter, and more modern than what Look was selling. The Keo was a few years away and Look was still making heavier and clunkier pedals that hadn't changed much since 1984. They were great pedals, but they certainly were'nt light. Look's lineup hadn't seen a proper bottom-up design revolution since the first Delta cleat was introduced. The Shimano pedals came out lighter, more compact and with better cleats. And that is why the SPD-SL is just as valid an option as the Look Keo.

All historic arguments about how much Shimano's pedals suck no longer apply. I think they finally found something that should last for at least ten years.

 

[atpjunkie]

well as a Clydesdale

who isn't really that weight conscious when I noticed Time pedals (at that point it was the last model the Impact) with steel axles were lighter than all but the highest zoot looks I tried them out. I have a set of the Impact Mags and the RXS, both with steel spindles and I couldn't be happier. great float, good platform, great price, and I feel more attached-less vertical play. I've used the MTb pedals for a whileincluding on my cx rigs. Now I'm all Time and am quite pleased.

 

[aliensporebomb]

Interesting - it does feel different but the Ultegra SPD-SL pedals with the same
cleats/shoes feels much more solid/secure engaged.

One caveat regarding disengagement with the SPD-SLs:
You also have to do a little ballerina type piroette to the left with the tip of your
foot to get it the SPD-SL to disengage while pressing downwards even on the
loosest setting whilst when connected to the Looks I just angle my right foot
to the left and I'm out. Like I said, they're still a bit new so once they wear in
they should be a bit easier to disengage.

 

[stevecaz]

I can't argue with most of your comments. Shimano has been through more pedal designs than Liza Minelli has husbands, but that should not diminish the spectacular pedal that is the SPD-SL. The SPD-SL is -- hopefully! -- here to stay.

Well I should have looked first, because yes, Shimano has yet another pedal coming out. Here is the link talking about the new Dura-Ace electronic system and a picture of the new pedal.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/03-09

Now, this may use the same SPD-SL cleat but with a different body design, but knowing Shimano, I wouldn't bet on it. It does however probably use the same bolt holes.

 

[Chris Oz]

Looking at the pedal it looks more like a redesign of the existing pedal than something radically new. I would be surprised if it didn't use the same cleat.

In all fairness we would eventually be complaining if they didn't offer a new improved pedal every other year. Look has. How long will it be before they offer a Ti/Carbon/Unobtainium all now improved limited edition/pro/elite pedal that we will need to morgage our house to buy?