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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, so first I hurt my back and now my knees are being a pain. Went to my chiro for the back and it's a disk issue which is under control, but I was told 'no more leg presses'. Now my knees are acting up and from all the searching and reading I have done it sounds like I have Patellar Tendonitis and squats are out. Right now I'm concentrating and getting the knees better by following the R.I.C.E steps and introduced some knee work that strengthens the muscles around the knees without straining the knees. Also, I've added some major stretching work and that seems to be helping both the back and knees. The last step will happen in a couple days when I go in for a pro fitting to confirm the bike is setup right...

Now the question...Once everything is better what the heck do I do if I can't do squats or leg presses?? That was a major part of my off season weight training....

Rich
 

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It's not TOO Cold!
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You do SQUATS. I used to suffer from patella something or other, where it didn't track straight and rubbed funny on the femur. But 15 years later and lots of hamstring strengthening and stretching as well as some dynamic exercises to strengthen the tendons my knees are great. I don't ever complain about them. Just concentrate on full range of motion in the squat and be sure that you don't pinch your knees together as you come up. Browse Amazon for some books on stretching, there are some good 1's out there that may change the way you so things, for the better.
 

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Stretching. See a PHYSICAL THERAPIST!

OK, I think Chiros are generally frauds- let's get that out up front. You think you can cure Downs Syndrome by cracking someones back? Criminal. That said, there are a few good chiros out there, and if you have back trouble they can be a good FIRST step- not final solution. My opinion, don't bother to refute me- my mind is made up.

OK- for me, I am well in to a strength program and I started having knee problems on the bike. I also started FLYING up hills... Bottom line is I started stretching more than a quick 30 seconds, and I found the strength work totally tightened up an odd small section of my legs I wasn't attending to. OW!!! It hurts to stretch back there! What a weird spot! But the problems are going away as I stretch it out completely and gently. This was a dagger-like pain on the top of my knee, when I really put power down- and it lead to total cramping. OW!!!

For that back, see a Physical Therapist that specializes in backs. Try to find someone certified in "MacKenzie"- it's a mechanical analysis system for the back developed by an Aussie. You'll get a series of exercises to do several times a day to strengthen your back in to the way it needs to be, to keep your back in the position the Chiro keeps manipulating you to. Seems like common sense- the Chiro puts your back one way, it feels better. Now build your muscles to keep it stable, and feeling good.


One other thing- NEVER let them cut.

You realize this is unsolicited advice by a stranger, over the internet, right?

Good luck, hope it works out. Nothing makes you feel like an old man like a bad back. You can work through it- sounds like you are not afraid of work!

'meat
 

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If you can’t do squats or leg presses, then you have some free time on your hands. As someone who’s squatted since 1988, only to suffer a separated shoulder from a crash last spring and not squat since, I think that they are not necessary for improving cycling-I am a stronger and faster cyclist today. Perhaps my years of weightlifting have developed my CNS to the point that I can recruit muscles I couldn’t have otherwise, but I don’t know.

How about deadlifts? They work most of the same muscles as squats and presses.

Des
 

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dogmeat said:
OK, I think Chiros are generally frauds- let's get that out up front. You think you can cure Downs Syndrome by cracking someones back? Criminal. That said, there are a few good chiros out there, and if you have back trouble they can be a good FIRST step- not final solution. My opinion, don't bother to refute me- my mind is made up.

OK- for me, I am well in to a strength program and I started having knee problems on the bike. I also started FLYING up hills... Bottom line is I started stretching more than a quick 30 seconds, and I found the strength work totally tightened up an odd small section of my legs I wasn't attending to. OW!!! It hurts to stretch back there! What a weird spot! But the problems are going away as I stretch it out completely and gently. This was a dagger-like pain on the top of my knee, when I really put power down- and it lead to total cramping. OW!!!

For that back, see a Physical Therapist that specializes in backs. Try to find someone certified in "MacKenzie"- it's a mechanical analysis system for the back developed by an Aussie. You'll get a series of exercises to do several times a day to strengthen your back in to the way it needs to be, to keep your back in the position the Chiro keeps manipulating you to. Seems like common sense- the Chiro puts your back one way, it feels better. Now build your muscles to keep it stable, and feeling good.


One other thing- NEVER let them cut.

You realize this is unsolicited advice by a stranger, over the internet, right?

Good luck, hope it works out. Nothing makes you feel like an old man like a bad back. You can work through it- sounds like you are not afraid of work!

'meat
Down Syndrome? I never learned to "crack backs" for Down Syndrome in chiropractic college. Down Syndrome is a genetic disorder. Where are you coming from with that?

Anyway, we are talking about bad backs here. McKenzie is a useful tool. I'm certified and have been treating bad backs for 15 years. I find McKenzie doesn't work more often than it does.

I own and operate two rehab clinics and have employed numerous physical therapists. They have no specialties. There is no such thing as a physical therapist back specialist. They are technicians that do therapy for all forms musculoskeletal pain. They are not doctors. They are not licensed to diagnose.

Never let them cut? Surgery is always the last result, but is sometimes necessary.
 

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rbart4506 said:
Now the question...Once everything is better what the heck do I do if I can't do squats or leg presses?? That was a major part of my off season weight training....

Rich
Ride your bike. It's one of the best things for your knees. We use bicycling extensively for knee rehabilitation. Leg presses are usually OK. Keep your feet forward so your knee doesn't go past your toes as you bend down. Do high reps with relatively low weight. Squats are out. Squats are one of the worst things you can do for your back. I've treated a number of high school athletes with herniated discs. I attribute almost everyone of them to squats.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well, I hit the gym yesterday and had a talk with the owner. He wanted to see how I was doing my squats and he found I was concentrating to hard on keep my upper body vertical and that was causing me to have my feet to far forward. This was making my quads do the brunt of the work and placing a large amount of stress on my knees. He got me to stand more vertical which caused my hips to pivot out and allowd my hams and glutes to get invlolved. He made sure I was keeping my back straight as I came down and that I focus on keeping my heels down. I could really feel the difference in my legs. I was squatting much less weight then before, but I was feeling it a lot more then before.

I expected my knees and especially the area on the front/outside of knee (down the outside of my shin) to be screaming, but it feels fine. Actually on a whole this is the best morning I've had in over two weeks....Let's see how the rest of the day goes...

Rich
 

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Get away from the Smith machine. By using free weights you are building balance as well as strength, plus, I don't know how you could get your feet too far in front with just a barbell. Keep your chin up, don't look at yourself in the mirror, this will keep your back flat. Always good to consult a coach.

Rock ON
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So I'm still here and still dealing with the knee problem, it is better though. I've had the bike fit done and things were adjusted. The saddle was raised and moved forward and a longer stem was added. I guess I had made the mistake of adjusting my cockpit through saddle position instead of stem lenght. I then went and had a pedal cleat alignment done and discovered that I have 6deg of forefoot varus. The fitter stated that I was at the limit between one and two wedges and that we should try one Lemond Wedge to each shoe at first. He used a laser line to check the path of the knee and made a slight adjust to my left cleat to move my foot closer to the bike. Once that was done my knee and foot, on both legs, are basically inline through the whole pedal stroke. My wife was a witness to that and she was pretty impressed how the alignment helped things. So the next day I tried everything out to see what the affects would be. I've had problems with my big toe going numb, on both feet, and this helped. It didn't totally relieve that problem, however so we added a second wedge about a week later. Went on one ride and the numbing was gone, I must admit at first the feet felt a bit wierd...Kind of like they were rolling...Once the ride was done though it felt pretty normal. With one or two cleats the knees felt pretty good. Everything felt inline and nothing was really being forced. The problem with the knee is that I am basically pain free on the bike. In the last 6 days I've been on the bike 4 times for a total of 165km's and the last two rides have been pretty good. I've been spinning at a higher cadence and watching climbs and such. The thing that is boggling me is that I feel pretty good on the bike and right after everything is ok. Even the next day I wake up all right, the problems usually start later that second day. I get that burning type sensation in my Patellar Tendon, under my kneecap and to the outside. I've been icing and using Ibuprofen during and after the rides. I'm stretching and doing exercises to stretch the muscles and even some self massaging to loosen things up. This weekend I'm going to stay off the bike, actually it will work out to about 5 days without riding, to see if that helps. On Monday I'm going in for some Active Release Therapy to see if that will help loosen things up. The last thing will be some new insoles from Yoursoles.com, they should arrive on Tuesday.

Is there anything else I can do here to speed things up?? I've got a 2 week vacation to Tennessee and Georgia coming up in 5 weeks and I need to get the mileage up to be prepared for the riding down there.

I know things are better then they were a couple weeks ago, but still not where I'd like them to be.

Thanks for letting me vent...

Rich
 

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Sounds like you have some tendonitis in the knee(s). Ibuprophen and ice will help reduce the inflammation, but most of all it takes rest to make that go away. something to try might be a wrap on the knee(s). The tendons strengthen much slower than the muscles and just haven't been able to keep up. A wrap will support the tendons and keep things nice and warm. Helps a lot when lifting too!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I think I might have this figured out....The chiro told me my Popliteus muscle is weak and causing problems with the rotation of the tibia...I've done a bunch of searching online and the symptoms and causes make sense. One of the main contributors can be inward rotation of the foot during walking (overpronation) and I know I have that problem. I have a feeling that the early rides on the new shoes and pedals without being setup aggravated things. Then, going on long walks with crap shoes finally did me in. There is also a popliteus tendon which can get inflamed. From the sounds of it this is a tough muscle to strengthen and loosen up. At least I feel a bit better knowing what is going on. I went in and had a session of ART and it has really helped the right knee. The left is a bit better and I'll see how the next session goes...
 
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