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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am about to build my very first set of wheels. The front wheel is a large flange 28 hole that I will be building radially. That I think I can figure out. The rear is also a large flange 28 hole, but I want to build it 2 cross. I used a spoke calculator and I already bought the spokes, but I can not find how to do the 2 cross lacing pattern. I know what the pattern looks like near the hub, but I don't know where the spokes go in the rim. My rear Campagnolo Proton is laced 2 cross on the drive side, but the hub is not traditional- the holes are located in pairs and are offset to allow the spokes to travel in more of a straight line to the rim. I don't know that I can use the Proton as an a guide or not.

Does anyone know of a source online that would show me how to build the wheel? Maybe I am making more of this than it is, but I am new at wheel building and want to do it right.

Thanks.
 

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Arrogant roadie.....
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Sounds like a semi-radial spoking pattern. That's actually a good idea on a rear wheel, you know?
 

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HillMan said:
I am about to build my very first set of wheels. The front wheel is a large flange 28 hole that I will be building radially. That I think I can figure out. The rear is also a large flange 28 hole, but I want to build it 2 cross. I used a spoke calculator and I already bought the spokes, but I can not find how to do the 2 cross lacing pattern. I know what the pattern looks like near the hub, but I don't know where the spokes go in the rim. My rear Campagnolo Proton is laced 2 cross on the drive side, but the hub is not traditional- the holes are located in pairs and are offset to allow the spokes to travel in more of a straight line to the rim. I don't know that I can use the Proton as an a guide or not.

Does anyone know of a source online that would show me how to build the wheel? Maybe I am making more of this than it is, but I am new at wheel building and want to do it right.

Thanks.
For a 28-spoke rear, you'll want a 3x pattern (atleast on the driveside) to achieve a semi-tangent spoke path. 24 spoke wheels cannot be laced 3x, and so 2x achieves a semi-tangent spoke path. 2x driveside on a 28 spoke is generally not a good idea; as close to a tangent path without spokes overlapping other spoke heads is best for spoke life and torque transmission (atleast that's what the numbers and tests show). I would do both sides 3x for convenience, since mixed lacing requires doing one side at a time and can be a bigger pain to figure out and put together. The Sheldon article is a good start for wheelbuilding. Once you know how to do 3x, you basically can do 1x and 2x just by counting how many spokes to cross when lacing the leading spokes.
 

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Arrogant roadie.....
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Actually, according to Sheldon (as well as most wheel builders), a rear semi-radial is strongest for deeply-dished rear wheels. Why? Because the non-drive side is under much less tension than the drive side (due to the extreme dish), and on a conventionally spoked wheel, those "trailing" spokes on the non-drive side can go completely slack during sprints, resulting in excessive load cycles to the spokes and rim. If the non-drive pokes are radial, this doesn't happen.

Doing a semi-radial spoking is actually simler than a complete 3x build. True, you do need to use 2 different sizes of spokes, but in a semi-radial pattern, they are siginificantly different length, so it's easy to keep them straight. When you spoke a hub, you always start with one side, anyways. On a semi-radial, all you need to do is run the non-drive side pokes straight after you spoke the drive side. Simple.
 

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Dave_Stohler said:
Actually, according to Sheldon (as well as most wheel builders), a rear semi-radial is strongest for deeply-dished rear wheels. Why? Because the non-drive side is under much less tension than the drive side (due to the extreme dish), and on a conventionally spoked wheel, those "trailing" spokes on the non-drive side can go completely slack during sprints, resulting in excessive load cycles to the spokes and rim. If the non-drive pokes are radial, this doesn't happen.
Semi-radial on the non -driveside (or radial) can sometimes be beneficial if your wheel has a hub that requires a lot of dish (such as a Campy 10s). I was talking about doing 3x on the driveside at the very least. I think there is substantial agreement that this is best lacing patern for the driveside, and the non-driveside can vary. Also, I think you mean the leading spokes that lose tension when torque is applied to the wheel. I have to disagree with the spokes going completely slack in a sprint; Jobst Brandt did significant studies with changes in spoke tension when torque is applied and even the strongest riders can't apply enough torque at peak power output to cause leading spokes on either side "to go slack" on a properly tensioned wheel.

Furthermore, not all hubs are approved for radial spoking so you may run into issues there. In any case, the hub flange will see less stress by doing a cross pattern.

Dave_Stohler said:
Doing a semi-radial spoking is actually simler than a complete 3x build. True, you do need to use 2 different sizes of spokes, but in a semi-radial pattern, they are siginificantly different length, so it's easy to keep them straight. When you spoke a hub, you always start with one side, anyways. On a semi-radial, all you need to do is run the non-drive side pokes straight after you spoke the drive side. Simple.
I never spoke a wheel one side at a time unless it has mixed lacing. It only makes it more difficult to lace because you have to weave spokes on the next side through the crosses of the first side. It's much quicker to do trailing spokes together first, twist the hub, then do leading spokes.

Maybe for big riders or those that put out massive amounts of power a wheel with radial lacing on the non-driveside might be necessary, but I think for most average riders 3x on both sides works fine if the wheel is brought up to the proper final tension. There are plenty of traditional 3x wheels out there to suggest this. In any case, it is an easier first-time build. Just my opinion.

-R
 

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I think you're making too much of this. Just do one set of spokes, twist the hub, then do the other set while crossing only twice. If you have the right length of spokes it should be self evident.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
feathers mcgraw said:
I think you're making too much of this. Just do one set of spokes, twist the hub, then do the other set while crossing only twice. If you have the right length of spokes it should be self evident.

Thanks. Maybe I am making too much of it. I know I have the right length of spokes, so it makes sence that if I only cross two spokes, I will end up at the right hole in the rim.

I maybe should have included that the rear hub is fixed/free. Equal flange spacing = no dishing required. Right?
 
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