[bmor_62]

While in the saddle I often feel like I need to shift back further in the saddle than is possible. My Brooks B17 saddle is positioned as far back as it can go. I do have a long torso. I suspect my top tube could stand to be longer. The frame is a 56 and the top tube is a 565 with a 73 seat angle.
Short of a custom frame I am considering a longer stem than my 100mm and or possibly a layback seat post.
Skool me people.

 

[DocRogers]

Dumb question, but you are already running a post with the clamp set back, and what you're considering is a "bent" post (like a thompson setback)?

Otherwise, easy enough and cheap to change a stem. Have your LBS fit you with a few.

 

[tihsepa]

Moving the saddle to compensate for a short top tube is a bad plan.
This is providing your saddle is already in the correct position.
Brooks saddles are known for short rails. This could be part of your problem.

 

[PlatyPius]

While in the saddle I often feel like I need to shift back further in the saddle than is possible. My Brooks B17 saddle is positioned as far back as it can go. I do have a long torso. I suspect my top tube could stand to be longer. The frame is a 56 and the top tube is a 565 with a 73 seat angle.
Short of a custom frame I am considering a longer stem than my 100mm and or possibly a layback seat post.
Skool me people.

You need to find out "why" you're pushing to the back of the saddle.

Are your femurs too long for the current saddle position? (Via plumb-bob/pedal axle method) Then you need a seatpost with more offset.

Are your arms (or torso) too long for the top tube length? Try a longer stem.

 

[Jay Strongbow]

You need to find out "why" you're pushing to the back of the saddle.

Are your femurs too long for the current saddle position? (Via plumb-bob/pedal axle method) Then you need a seatpost with more offset.
Are your arms (or torso) too long for the top tube length? Try a longer stem.

Exactly. And saddle tilt is another potential cause to look at.

 

[Opus51569]

Moving the saddle to compensate for a short top tube is a bad plan.
This is providing your saddle is already in the correct position.
Brooks saddles are known for short rails. This could be part of your problem.

+1

Dial in the correct saddle position first (height, fore/aft, tilt) then leave it alone. Once you have that, then change the stem as needed to give you a comfortable reach.

 

[FTR]

+1

Dial in the correct saddle position first (height, fore/aft, tilt) then leave it alone. Once you have that, then change the stem as needed to give you a comfortable reach.

Although this is maybe not possible with the Brooks due to their STUPIDLY short useable rails.
I have a Brooks and this is the one thing I hate about it.

Your issue could be seat height OR set back or a combination of both.

 

[bmor_62]

Yes my clamp is about 2.5 cm behind the center of the seatpost, so a Thompson layback post is one option I am considering. Seatpost is extended about 7 cm high of the collar, which doesn't seem to be much considering the bent section for a layback style post can not be below the clamp. My saddle appears to be parallel to the ground. Again I have a long torso, 5'10", 30" inseam. Honestly never had a proper fitting, saddle position has only been trial and error, comfort driven adjustments. A 130mm Thompson stem is the other option I am considering. Considering my torso is long relative to my other proportions it seems perhaps I should start with a longer stem.

 

[FTR]

Yes my clamp is about 2.5 cm behind the center of the seatpost, so a Thompson layback post is one option I am considering. Seatpost is extended about 7 cm high of the collar, which doesn't seem to be much considering the bent section for a layback style post can not be below the clamp. My saddle appears to be parallel to the ground. Again I have a long torso, 5'10", 30" inseam. Honestly never had a proper fitting, saddle position has only been trial and error, comfort driven adjustments. A 130mm Thompson stem is the other option I am considering. Considering my torso is long relative to my other proportions it seems perhaps I should start with a longer stem.

A longer stem is not going to impact where your bum wants to be in relation to your BB IMO.

 

[tihsepa]

Yes my clamp is about 2.5 cm behind the center of the seatpost, so a Thompson layback post is one option I am considering. Seatpost is extended about 7 cm high of the collar, which doesn't seem to be much considering the bent section for a layback style post can not be below the clamp. My saddle appears to be parallel to the ground. Again I have a long torso, 5'10", 30" inseam. Honestly never had a proper fitting, saddle position has only been trial and error, comfort driven adjustments. A 130mm Thompson stem is the other option I am considering. Considering my torso is long relative to my other proportions it seems perhaps I should start with a longer stem.

A Thomson setback post is less that the 2.5 cm of setback you have now. They just look like more on account of how they are made. The clamp on a Thomson is set at zero and the seatpost gives it the setback. Most seatposts have the setback in the way the clamp is mounted.

 

[bmor_62]

After looking at the 17 mm layback on the Thompson closely I see it has an inline clamp compared to my existing 2.5 cm offset clamp, so there may not be much difference. It is possible that the seat may sit too high as well due to the bend in the post. More reasons to try a longer stem first.

 

[FTR]

After looking at the 17 mm layback on the Thompson closely I see it has an inline clamp compared to my existing 2.5 cm offset clamp, so there may not be much difference. It is possible that the seat may sit too high as well due to the bend in the post. More reasons to try a longer stem first.

No.
Read my above post.
A longer stem will not impact on where your bum wants to sit in relation to your bottom bracket and pedals.
Get rid of the Brooks and try a saddle that you can move back further OR get a seatpost that will allow you to set the Brooks back further.

 

[wim]

Forget the Thomson. All Thomson setback posts have a setback of only 16 mm. And with your 7 cm of seat post showing, you couldn't get the Thomson setback post down far enough into the seat tube. You need to have at least 10 cm of seat post showing to use a Thomson setback post.

 

[Randy99CL]

Again I have a long torso, 5'10", 30" inseam. Honestly never had a proper fitting, saddle position has only been trial and error, comfort driven adjustments.

Hold it! You need to buy a clue. You are wasting a lot of time discussing seatposts but you ignored the most important advice posted: get fitted!

There is only one right spot for your saddle and that is determined by your knee over the pedal spindle. If you don't know how to check that, read up on it.
You don't arbitrarily move your saddle back on a whim.

You do have a long torso. I am 5'8" with 30" inseam and ride a 53-54 road bike. Your 56cm frame is likely a little too tall for your legs but probably about right for your torso.

With a 56 frame and your inseam your saddle should likely be a little forward from where it would be for someone with a more "average" leg length.

The only right way to do this is to put your saddle exactly where it is supposed to be, then adjust your stem and handlebar reach to find a comfortable position.

BTW, you kind of pissed me off with the "skool me people". Sorry

 

[FTR]

Hold it! You need to buy a clue. You are wasting a lot of time discussing seatposts but you ignored the most important advice posted: get fitted!

There is only one right spot for your saddle and that is determined by your knee over the pedal spindle. If you don't know how to check that, read up on it.
You don't arbitrarily move your saddle back on a whim.

You do have a long torso. I am 5'8" with 30" inseam and ride a 53-54 road bike. Your 56cm frame is likely a little too tall for your legs but probably about right for your torso.

The only right way to do this is to put your saddle exactly where it is supposed to be, then adjust your stem and handlebar reach to find a comfortable position.

BTW, you kind of pissed me off with the "skool me people". Sorry

Not really.
KOPS is pretty much a myth.
I do agree with your suggestion that he needs to work out where his saddle position should be.
I have given him the links to do that.
All moving his handlebars is going to do is put them further away from his saddle.
It is not gong to impact where his bum wants to be.

 

[Kerry Irons]

KOPS is pretty much a myth.

No. Saying that KOPS gives you the correct position is wrong, but KOPS is a decent starting place for fitting. From there it's a range of saddle from +1 to -2.5 cm from KOPS.

 

[Randy99CL]

KOPS is pretty much a myth.

I've been out of cycling for a while, just getting back into it.
I've used Gregs' book for bike fit for 20+ years so I imagine it is somewhat dated.
I still think it is a really good place to start, then adjust from there as needed.

When I bought my new bike in January my dealer (50+ years experience) checked the KOPS and it was perfect. I guess he is "old school" like me.

 

[FTR]

No. Saying that KOPS gives you the correct position is wrong, but KOPS is a decent starting place for fitting. From there it's a range of saddle from +1 to -2.5 cm from KOPS.

Kerry, you and I have had this argument before.
If it only gets you +1 to -2.5cm from where you need to be, then in bike speak that is a huge range.
Would you rely on something that put your saddle height within 2.5cm of the correct height?

 

[FTR]

I've been out of cycling for a while, just getting back into it.
I've used Gregs' book for bike fit for 20+ years so I imagine it is somewhat dated.
I still think it is a really good place to start, then adjust from there as needed.

When I bought my new bike in January my dealer (50+ years experience) checked the KOPS and it was perfect. I guess he is "old school" like me.

AKA, he is relying on the same out of date fitting information that you are.
Dont feel bad though as Body Geometry and Retul still work around KOPS, back angle, elbow angles and knee angles to some extent too.

 

[Opus51569]

Although this is maybe not possible with the Brooks due to their STUPIDLY short useable rails.
I have a Brooks and this is the one thing I hate about it.

Your issue could be seat height OR set back or a combination of both.

I agree the Brooks rails are short, but if the OP can't get at least decent KOPS, stem/bar changes aren't going to help.