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The Gimlet Eye
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“I find it hard to believe that a professional like Alberto Contador would risk a detectable drug and I can’t believe how many people have left a certain team and then gone positive,” LeMond told Cyclingnews after hearing the news.
I’m all for eliminating drugs but the powerful ones aren’t detectable but I don’t think that this is a black and white drug test. Look at the quantities that he was detected with,” he said.
There’s some crazy stuff in cycling with people going positive for things that have little to no benefit to performance. To risk a Tour de France victory for this….
Anything like this is devastating but this is like someone going positive for marijuana, I don’t think there’s a benefit to it but if it’s on the list, it’s on the list. I’m trying to walk a fine line but I don’t believe in the transparency of the sport or that there’s equal treatment for everyone out there. It just blows me away.”


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-shocked-by-contador-positive
 

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Teach me how to Bucky
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I doubt he'd be as shocked or remotely conciliatory if it were Armstrong.
 

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Just Plain Bitter
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I really want to say what I think about LeMond but I don't feel like having to go back and edit later. With all of the mud slinging he has done towards LA and then to come and try and excuse AC I think speaks volumes for the man! I didn't think he could sink any lower but I guess I was wrong.
 

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covenant said:
“I find it hard to believe that a professional like Alberto Contador would risk a detectable drug and I can’t believe how many people have left a certain team and then gone positive,” LeMond told Cyclingnews after hearing the news.
I’m all for eliminating drugs but the powerful ones aren’t detectable but I don’t think that this is a black and white drug test. Look at the quantities that he was detected with,” he said.
There’s some crazy stuff in cycling with people going positive for things that have little to no benefit to performance. To risk a Tour de France victory for this….
Anything like this is devastating but this is like someone going positive for marijuana, I don’t think there’s a benefit to it but if it’s on the list, it’s on the list. I’m trying to walk a fine line but I don’t believe in the transparency of the sport or that there’s equal treatment for everyone out there. It just blows me away.”


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-shocked-by-contador-positive

Sounds like he cuts Contador some slack.
Translation:
"I don't think this proves anything clearly about Contador, but it clearly shows that Armstrong was doping". Seriously, he appears to be more concrete in making connections to "certain former Astana rider", and then excusing Contador's positive as a fluke of some sort.
 

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rward325 said:
I really want to say what I think about LeMond but I don't feel like having to go back and edit later. With all of the mud slinging he has done towards LA and then to come and try and excuse AC I think speaks volumes for the man! I didn't think he could sink any lower but I guess I was wrong.
What do you think about LeMond?

I think it's an honest opinion from him.

The "mud slinging" towards Armstrong is proving to be justified.

LeMond says he's shocked that AC was caught with such a tiny amount of a drug that's easily detectable and according to some, isn't all that performance enhancing.

LeMond is also aware of the allegations that LA bribed the corrupt UCI more than once and there is a long history of guys leaving his teams and then turning up positive later for whatever reason.
 

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i have no idea why anyone would ask what Lemond thinks. Most likely because people will read it and that's all. LeMond's obviously going to swing this back to Armstrong as fast as possible, which he did, and I guess that sells advertising.
 

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rward325 said:
I really want to say what I think about LeMond...
I have always remained completely out of the silly bashing of Lemond or Armstrong (beyond what I think is his obvious doping and denial of it).

But I've got to admit when I read this story all I could think was what a douchebag.

I mean how can anyone be surprised when a top cyclist is popped these days?

And the public jab at Postal/Discovery was simply unnecessary (plenty of reasons to think there was widespread doping on those teams, if not team organized, but it's pure speculation that their ex-riders are being set up to fail drug tests once they leave the team).
 

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Just Plain Bitter
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blackjack said:
What do you think about LeMond?

I think it's an honest opinion from him.

The "mud slinging" towards Armstrong is proving to be justified.

LeMond says he's shocked that AC was caught with such a tiny amount of a drug that's easily detectable and according to some, isn't all that performance enhancing.

LeMond is also aware of the allegations that LA bribed the corrupt UCI more than once and there is a long history of guys leaving his teams and then turning up positive later for whatever reason.
So by your assertion it is okay for AC to dope and show positive even for trace amounts while a member of Team Radio Shack was given a 2 year suspension for the exact same offense? No amount of the substance in the blood is legal by UCI riules. The minimum listed is for certification of the labs that they must be able to detect this as a minimum.

Whether LA is guilty or not(I really have no doubt that he is) LeMond wants to give AC a free pass while continuing to crucify LA. He probably still thinks Floyd is innocent to. Sounds like a real prickish thing to do in my book. AC obviously doped and got caught, tainted meat my ass. LeMond is an *******, always has been always will be.

As for all of these guys showing up dirty after they leave LA's teams is a matter of who was playing the game the best. I am a realist and believe they are all dirty in this. Some are just better at cheating than others. As long as there is money and sport there will be cheats. they will continue to sporadically get caught and passed in front of the press as if the sport is trying to clean it up. The athletes will continue to find new ways to cheat and get away with it.
 

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Teach me how to Bucky
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He is cutting AC slack that he would never give to Lance. The level is really low...I don't think there is a benifit...

So what Greg? The acceptable level is zero.

What really chaps my ass about LeMond is that he probably doped to the gills too.

They all frickin doped and now they are just squabbling like *****es, pointing fingers at each other, and calling eachother names.
 

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don't you know the rules of this forum??? if you don't like Lemond, it means you are an LA fanboy.... apparently you can't dislike both on here....
 

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mosca
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i don't think Lemond doped. he seems to be a naive sort of person who sees himself as the victim of different situations. his childhood had to be pretty painful. his perception of Hinault's betrayal (a rider he admired). the gunshot wound almost ending his life and career. the peloton passing him by in the early 90's,(if Lemond was doped, he probably would've been able to keep up at that time). then America falls in love with Armstrong in a way Lemond never got. what Landis tried to do to him was pretty despicable...

his reaction to AC is probably tainted by his negative feelings for Armstrong. the enemy of my enemy... although didn't Lemond grill AC about his climbing performances in the Tour last year casting aspersions on the valididity of that kind of sustained power.(I never believed AC at 138 lbs could overpower world class time trialists in a flat tt without extracurricular help) now Lemond's an apologist for AC? Lemond is a cycling fan/LA hater that truly wants to believe in a clean sport.
 

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lemond reminds me of the preachers that are anti-gay that turn out to be gay themselves. LA is a cheater. Floyd is a cheater. AC is a cheater. Lemond is a d!ckhead.
 

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wiz525 said:
don't you know the rules of this forum??? if you don't like Lemond, it means you are an LA fanboy.... apparently you can't dislike both on here....
I love LeMond... He brings a sort of WWE thing to cycling.... Does wonders for the sport....
 

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I completely agree with bnoojin's opinion on this one. :thumbsup:
I also find it quite fascinating that people take LeMonds opinions so personally and become so angry that they resort to namecalling, as well as claiming that he and all other cyclists have doped too.
 

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rward325 said:
So by your assertion it is okay for AC to dope and show positive even for trace amounts while a member of Team Radio Shack was given a 2 year suspension for the exact same offense?
Hold it! Where did I say what you assert?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/radioshacks-li-fuyu-positive-test-confirmed

Has the UCI even issued a definite 2 year ban yet? This link says he's provisionally suspended.


rward325 said:
No amount of the substance in the blood is legal by UCI riules. The minimum listed is for certification of the labs that they must be able to detect this as a minimum..
That's true. Both Fuyu and Contador are apparently using the same expert to try to show that it's possible that they did accidentally injest this substance. AFAIK, the jury is still out on that contention.


rward325 said:
Whether LA is guilty or not(I really have no doubt that he is) LeMond wants to give AC a free pass while continuing to crucify LA...
Did you even read the article? The main thing I got out of it was that LeMond was perplexed by Contador's situation. It seemed he was withholding judgement and just giving his opinion like we're doing here.

You obviously have very strong feelings about LeMond. You don't think that LeMond should have incredibly strong feelings about Lance Armstrong, especially with what is coming to light to us, and what LeMond has known for years?

rward325 said:
He probably still thinks Floyd is innocent to....
You're not aware that the fighting between Floyd and LeMond was due to the fact that LeMond believed Floyd to be guilty, and he wasn't hesitant to announce it in the media?

rward325 said:
Sounds like a real prickish thing to do in my book. AC obviously doped and got caught, tainted meat my ass.....
I believe AC cheats. I don't think this incident proves it though, as it doesn't make much sense, which is pretty much what LeMond stated.

rward325 said:
LeMond is an *******, always has been always will be. .
My original question was why? You really just gave an overly emotional response.

rward325 said:
As for all of these guys showing up dirty after they leave LA's teams is a matter of who was playing the game the best..
What game is that? Bribery and influence peddling?

rward325 said:
I am a realist and believe they are all dirty in this..
Many are dirty. I'm not ready to say all. I will say that the sport was trying to clean up on two occasions during Armstrong's era and he was a chief enforcer of the Omerta both times. For informed observers, this is indisputable.

rward325 said:
Some are just better at cheating than others. As long as there is money and sport there will be cheats. they will continue to sporadically get caught and passed in front of the press as if the sport is trying to clean it up. The athletes will continue to find new ways to cheat and get away with it.

As someone else pointed out, there is even cheating when no money is involved, competition is the only thing that is required.

Maybe the tiny amount of clenbuterol that was detected in AC will discourage cheating among most. Maybe that's wishful thinking.
 

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mosca
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piano said:
I completely agree with bnoojin's opinion on this one. :thumbsup:
I also find it quite fascinating that people take LeMonds opinions so personally and become so angry that they resort to namecalling, as well as claiming that he and all other cyclists have doped too.
thanks, piano. after following Lemonds career I believe in a certain genuineness about him.

I think the vitriol about Lemond is an effect of he and Lance being enemies and the inherent polarization of people's opinions that LA produces.
 

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Teach me how to Bucky
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bnoojin said:
i don't think Lemond doped. he seems to be a naive sort of person who sees himself as the victim of different situations. his childhood had to be pretty painful. his perception of Hinault's betrayal (a rider he admired). the gunshot wound almost ending his life and career. the peloton passing him by in the early 90's,(if Lemond was doped, he probably would've been able to keep up at that time). then America falls in love with Armstrong in a way Lemond never got. what Landis tried to do to him was pretty despicable...

his reaction to AC is probably tainted by his negative feelings for Armstrong. the enemy of my enemy... although didn't Lemond grill AC about his climbing performances in the Tour last year casting aspersions on the valididity of that kind of sustained power.(I never believed AC at 138 lbs could overpower world class time trialists in a flat tt without extracurricular help) now Lemond's an apologist for AC? Lemond is a cycling fan/LA hater that truly wants to believe in a clean sport.
We will never know for sure if LeMond doped. We do know LeMond had a "legendary" VO2 max.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/06/any-athlete-with-vo2-max-over-90.html

Based on this, WADA would be highly suspicious of several of LeMond's best days as "beyond all norms" if they occured in a recent tour.

The tragedy of professional cycling is we all yearn to see superhuman performances out of human cyclists. LeMond was superhuman. We know how most of the recent superhuman riders got their powers, we will never be sure about LeMond.

My cynical view is to assume they are all doped so I never get my heart broken. It sucks that it has to be that way.
 

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mosca
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Brad the Bold said:
We will never know for sure if LeMond doped. We do know LeMond had a "legendary" VO2 max.

no, we'll never know for sure, but I can live with that.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/06/any-athlete-with-vo2-max-over-90.html

Based on this, WADA would be highly suspicious of several of LeMond's best days as "beyond all norms" if they occured in a recent tour.

I think being suspicious of extraordinary performances is part of the job.

The tragedy of professional cycling is we all yearn to see superhuman performances out of human cyclists. LeMond was superhuman. We know how most of the recent superhuman riders got their powers, we will never be sure about LeMond.

the tragedy or beauty? I still believe humans can strive beyond the "norm" in all areas of life. (even without cheating/even despite cheaters) that's part of what's inspiring and beautiful about sports. it should aspire to transcend the everyday but avoid the hollowness of pure fiction which doping and its performances bring.

as far as Lemond, his time in the 80's had amphetamines? the 90's brought blood boosters of EPO and the like. the differences in performance enhancing seems tremendous. by this reasoning, Merckx was not a once in a lifetime gifted athlete, but simply the best doped athlete of all time. I simply cannot believe that. things started to get really out there in the 90's and they're only now starting to clamp down.

My cynical view is to assume they are all doped so I never get my heart broken. It sucks that it has to be that way.
I can understand that. I could hardly watch for a couple years after Hamilton, Landis and others started falling. when cycling bodies started showing a lot more will in weeding out the dopers and there's seems to be a new generation of riders outspoken going against the grain of doping, I found new hope. even if there are only a minority of riders to pull for then I say it's worth it to believe in them and root for them.
 

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Brad the Bold said:
We will never know for sure if LeMond doped. We do know LeMond had a "legendary" VO2 max.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/06/any-athlete-with-vo2-max-over-90.html

Based on this, WADA would be highly suspicious of several of LeMond's best days as "beyond all norms" if they occured in a recent tour.

The tragedy of professional cycling is we all yearn to see superhuman performances out of human cyclists. LeMond was superhuman. We know how most of the recent superhuman riders got their powers, we will never be sure about LeMond.

My cynical view is to assume they are all doped so I never get my heart broken. It sucks that it has to be that way.

Don't you think you have it a little backwards?

What days did LeMond have that were beyond all norms or out of line with a natural progression of his career?

There is not one indication that LeMond doped. No rumor, nothing.
 
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