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Have good, get give
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/100210dnmetkatyjogger.148b60854.html

This is an old link, but I can't find the updated one that confirms that the runner has passed away.

This is a strange situation. Dallas is probably the most hostile city to cyclists in America. On several occasions the magazines and websites usually rank it #1 for bike unfriendliness. If you are a casual rider intent on riding alone there are few places where you can feel truly safe.

This particular trail is absolutely not the place to take a road bike. It's filled with joggers, strollers and tons of rollerbladers. It's THE central exercise trail for most urban professionals.

What seems to have happened is that the runner did a rapid turn around while wearing headphones and had her head driven to the pavement by the cyclist. She died this morning in the hospital.

I'm not totally sure what changes this will prompt, or what it should prompt.

RIP to the runner. Sounds like an excellent person.
 

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culdeus said:
I'm not totally sure what changes this will prompt, or what it should prompt.
How about place a ban on the use of headphones/earphones on trail or require cyclists to carry a loud speaker at all times.
 

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Team Tom's
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You can't legislate human imperfection. She made a mistake and it cost her her life. Plenty of people do the same without the same consequences.
 

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I don't understand why do we always blame the pedestrian? Time and time again I see cyclist blasting by pedestrians at 15 or 20mph. I think it is the cyclist responsibility to to aviod hitting a pedestrian. In other words slow down and be prepared to stop or ride off the path if you have to. Shouting on your left doesn't the give right to run someone over. Just how fast was this guy going to kill that woman?
 

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GambJoe said:
I don't understand why do we always blame the pedestrian? Time and time again I see cyclist blasting by pedestrians at 15 or 20mph. I think it is the cyclist responsibility to to aviod hitting a pedestrian. In other words slow down and be prepared to stop or ride off the path if you have to. Shouting on your left doesn't the give right to run someone over. Just how fast was this guy going to kill that woman?
For starters, condolences to the runner and her family.

A lot of MUT's have a speed limit of 15 MPH, which I am not sure if that would be fast enough to kill someone, but I would guess a lot had to do with the runner hitting the ground.

I have started to become a little more cautious when riding. meaning thinking about stopping at stop signs, as oppose to wondering if I can make it through the intersection without stopping or slowing down, unclipping/slowing down when I see pedestrians. Had a wierd incident with passing a guy walking in front of me and when I passed two really small kids were racing towards me on both sides of the trail and I have no idea how I managed to split them and not hit them as I flew by. A good reason to stay off of MUTS, but this was a shortcut to avoid heavy traffic during my commute home from work.
 

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Cyclists, like cars, are somewhat predictable in their movements. Pedestrians can stop, jump to the side, move left when you say "On your left!", walk out from behind cars, etc. Accidents do happen, and are sometimes unavoidable, unless avoidance means staying at home.

We have bike trails around here, and you need to be careful because people walk and job on them, too. But they are bike trails, designed to get bikes off busy roads, and other users need to understand that they are in bicycle traffic.

That said, if this trail is not really a good place to bike, then the cyclist was going too fast. But this could have happened anywhere.
 

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Have good, get give
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
GambJoe said:
I don't understand why do we always blame the pedestrian? Time and time again I see cyclist blasting by pedestrians at 15 or 20mph. I think it is the cyclist responsibility to to aviod hitting a pedestrian. In other words slow down and be prepared to stop or ride off the path if you have to. Shouting on your left doesn't the give right to run someone over. Just how fast was this guy going to kill that woman?

Some reports say that the size of the guy was a larger factor than the speed. This hasn't been put into print in an official form.

F = m*a

In this section there was a separated path that was designated for pedestrians. She was hit on the "wheeled" path.
 

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Teach me how to Bucky
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Wow that is awful.

Sounds like a terrible place to be biking at speed. The larger, faster vehicle needs to be responsible for the safety of the slower and more vulnerable. Especially if bikes were in the minority.

A unlikely death, but likely an avoidable accident.
 

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I can’t make any judgements without the facts, but I’ve got to wonder how a cyclist could hit and kill a pedestrian unless he was going faster than he should when passing the pedestrian. We expect cars to slow down and give cyclists safe clearance, and pedestrians should not expect any less from us. Not only on MUTs, but on roads as well. Otherwise, we’re no better than the motorists who blast by us at unreasonably close distances.
 

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seacoaster said:
I can’t make any judgements without the facts, but I’ve got to wonder how a cyclist could hit and kill a pedestrian unless he was going faster than he should when passing the pedestrian. We expect cars to slow down and give cyclists safe clearance, and pedestrians should not expect any less from us. Not only on MUTs, but on roads as well. Otherwise, we’re no better than the motorists who blast by us at unreasonably close distances.
After reading the article and most of the comments I'd guess that since she was not aware of the cyclist she was probably slightly off-balance making that turn to her left or at least not expecting an impact. I remember reading somewhere that it doesn't take as much force as one would think to get a brain injury. Terrible tragedy.....
 

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That happened in Mpls a number of years ago on one of the lakes trails, resulting in the creation of separate paths for peds. Trouble is in-line skaters tend to believe they are bikes. Still, they had a posted speed of 10 mph.

Safest place to bike is on the roads.
 

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RIP to the runner.

I ride the local MUT during the week to avoid the idiot drivers at rush hour. I always see guys flying past people doing 20mph. I slow down to a safe mph just in case someone might do what this jogger did, at least i might have a chance to avoid an accident. I say it is probably both there faults. Biker going to fast and the girl should have maybe stopped and looked before she turned.
 

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culdeus said:
Some reports say that the size of the guy was a larger factor than the speed. This hasn't been put into print in an official form.

F = m*a

In this section there was a separated path that was designated for pedestrians. She was hit on the "wheeled" path.
You analysis is right on the money.
The blunt of the force she took was probably equivalent to Ray Lewis putting a hit on a quarterback at a full speed....I'm sure she wasn't wearing any pads/helmet.
Condolesence to her family...
 

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BLACKBEARD RIDING CLUB
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There may be a little blame on the cyclist peddling to fast, but come on! The majority of the blame falls on the jogger for the sole reason of wearing headphones. She had no situational awareness, and wasn’t as aware of her surroundings as much as she could have been because of the distraction of whatever external stimulant that was playing in her ears at that time.
Lesson learned: Don’t wear an ipod or like device, while exercising any activity in which you are moving forward. Besides, you’re cheating yourself out of a naturally aspirated work out…!
Is this story sad? YES. Will I wear an ipod? NO
 

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Equal and opposite

GambJoe said:
I don't understand why do we always blame the pedestrian? Time and time again I see cyclist blasting by pedestrians at 15 or 20mph. I think it is the cyclist responsibility to to aviod hitting a pedestrian. In other words slow down and be prepared to stop or ride off the path if you have to. Shouting on your left doesn't the give right to run someone over. Just how fast was this guy going to kill that woman?
CdaleNut said:
I hope the cyclist gets charged
We had the reverse situation on our local MUT - the cyclist died. Same behavior on the part of the runner. Absent a lot more information, those who blame the cyclist are basically saying that bikes shouldn't be allowed on these paths. If a runner with headphones doesn't hear the rider give a warning, and then abruptly turns into the rider's path, there is essentially nothing the rider can to do prevent a collision. This is the rider's fault?
 

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There aren't enough details in the article to say for sure who was responsible. It's likely both the runner AND the cyclist have to share responsibility for the accident, although from a legal standpoint, I doubt there's enough evidence to charge the cyclist or maybe even an applicable offense.

I'm of the opinion that cyclists shouldn't even bother with MUTs if they're looking for a workout. You're just asking for trouble. You'd be safer playing in the street. MUTs are for families and slower activities such as jogging.

These kinds of cyclist/pedestrian conflicts are the price to be paid for living in big cities.
 

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Peter P. said:
I'm of the opinion that cyclists shouldn't even bother with MUTs if they're looking for a workout. You're just asking for trouble. You'd be safer playing in the street. MUTs are for families and slower activities such as jogging.
I'll give you that one...
 
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