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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Took ATP's and mikem's advise and got some Tufo tubs, 28mm Pro's and must say not too impressed. Weight is good, roll pretty well but traction and mud shedding aint too good.

Took them to a local park with lots of slick mud after snow melt, and I mean lots of mud!
Ran between 30-45 psi even @ 30 traction only so so. Michelin muds did way better (went home and changed wheels to compare) even at 40psi. SO any other suggestions, I know choice is pretty limited in North america, what about challenge grifo's anyone used them?
I know Gully et al use them and similar tread to Dugasts.
 

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I used the 34s.

I didn't really care for them in the slop either. Here's my cross set up. I have a set of clinchers which I run Michelin Mud Cross. These are my trail, sloppy course, and back up wheels. I will also have a set of tubulars. These are my main race wheels. I'm in Nor Cal and the conditions don't get sloppy that often. So Tufos work very well around here most of the time.
 

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Tufo set up.

run rear with arrows reversed for more traction. I run front with arrows forward as it aids in mud shedding. I've never had trouble with Tufos and mud clearance. Traction yes, but that is by Tufo's design. They have a corporate policy about too much grip being a detractor to a fast rider with good technique (which I'm not). They believe in a faster tire w/ less resistance vs. a grippy one. this seems to common in cx tubie design as the Challenge Grifo and Dugast both have similar treads. The Vittorias have small dots only, no chevrons at all. The Dugast is even more sparse than the Tufo. I know that the more expensive Tufos get grippier as they use softer rubber (also better in the cold) but they wear faster. If you need a slop tire the Mich Mud Clinch is about the best. so if you are going tubie, it doesn't get much better.
 

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Agree on all points.

I used the Elite 34s and the ride was unbelievable. If it's anything but slop Tufos smoke the competition. I thought the Vittorias might work good in the mud but I got no proof.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
atpjunkie said:
The Dugast is even more sparse than the Tufo.
Little tough to reverse a double glued and taped tub now eh!
Believe it or not the more sparse the tread the better in slop, I have ridden Dugast and they rock, absolutly amazing but $100 a pop. Some people cut tread off dugast etc for real muck. They use Michelin treads anyway, just suppler and wider.
Challenge is same tread as Dugast but $30 cheaper. think I will try those.
 

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Kind of funny.

dreww said:
Little tough to reverse a double glued and taped tub now eh!
Believe it or not the more sparse the tread the better in slop, I have ridden Dugast and they rock, absolutly amazing but $100 a pop. Some people cut tread off dugast etc for real muck. They use Michelin treads anyway, just suppler and wider.
Challenge is same tread as Dugast but $30 cheaper. think I will try those.
That's what happened to me. I glued the rear tire on backwards like atpjunkie said to do. Only problem was I didn't know that was ok. It was late and I didn't want to re-glue it so I left it. The next day at the races somebody looked at my rear tire and said, "They work so much better in the mud with the tread reversed, don't they?". I said, "Yeah" but I was really thinkin', "Cool now I don't have to re-glue it."

I think the touble with the Tufos is the tread depth. They're kind of shallow. Although a year ago in Napa at the nationals they seem to be working as good as anything in the slop. I'd really like to check out the Dugast. Do you know if they sell them in the States?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
www-mtnpedaler-com said:
I'd really like to check out the Dugast. Do you know if they sell them in the States?
cyclocrossworld.com $100 U.S, like i say grifos are same tread and almost as supple for $30 less. Dugasts also available from the U.K cheaper too. 40 pounds = 100cdn + shipping. But $100 U.S = $150 cdn + shipping. try cyclocross.com or wardscycles.co.uk
 

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Tire Choices

The Challenge tread is the same as the Dugast. Dugast does not produce its own treads, but instead purchases road and cyclocross treads from other companies and couples them with their own casings. They also custom manufacture tires with treads provided by select athletes. In a few races this year, Wellens and others had tires that looked like Michelin treads but were sewn onto Dugast casings. So the fact that Michelin treads were better than the Tufo is not surprising, in some circumstances they are. There are probably some situations where the old Specialized Tri-cross is better than both. This explains why you see pro's showing up at races with so many different tire combinations to try out. To say that one is any better than another is missing most of the point.

Anyway, tire choice is highly subjective and has a number of variables contributing to the complexity...thick mud, thin watery mud, lots of climbing on the course, climbing on grass or dirt, etc etc etc. Not to mention that riding successfully in mud is a well-honed skill as demonstrated by Page the last two years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
cxrcr said:
Wellens and others had tires that looked like Michelin treads but were sewn onto Dugast casings.
You can supply Dugast with your used clincher tread and he will glue (not sew) it to a new casing. Even gives steps how to remove the bead and threads from the clincher! his website is I think www.dugast.be I forget now.

Trouble is like many I cant afford diff tubbies for many different conditions. 2 sets tops.
 

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yes, sparse tread great in slop. Tufo is influenced by tractor tires. Bigger gaps equals more open space which means harder for slop surface tension to 'stick' between tread knobblies. yes, tough to unglue, but heaps better backwards...sorry.
 

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I've only seen Dugasts in pictures so I'm no expert on their tread, yes looked similar to Grifos but also to the old Clement cx treads. Maybe all these are the same.
 

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I think that's why the Vred Campo has been such a good CX tire (for a clincher) - the tread is a copy of the old Clements design (Dugast/Grifo, etc). And there's more to good traction than just the tread design - the rubber compound and casing has a lot to do with it.

I don't believe you should need a fat knobby tread for mud if you're skills are half way decent. Instead of trying to float over it on a wide tire, I've always found a skinnier tire better because it cuts through to the more solid stuff below.
 

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fat tires

my need for bigger tires is not for mud cutting but tire pressure. As a Clydesdale if I run narrower tires I need to run higher psi to avoid bottoming out to the rim (what would cause a pinch flat but I run Tufos). I have some 30's and I need to run 10-15 psi higher to avoid as MShaw puts it 'Rim Whangs'. Here in SD is the land of baby heads, there are so many they can't all be avoided so bigger tires allows me to run lower pressure for better traction and avoid putting dents in my rims. as for 'sinking to the good stuff', this I have no trouble.
 

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34mm Challenge itres

atpjunkie said:
my need for bigger tires is not for mud cutting but tire pressure. As a Clydesdale if I run narrower tires I need to run higher psi to avoid bottoming out to the rim (what would cause a pinch flat but I run Tufos). I have some 30's and I need to run 10-15 psi higher to avoid as MShaw puts it 'Rim Whangs'. Here in SD is the land of baby heads, there are so many they can't all be avoided so bigger tires allows me to run lower pressure for better traction and avoid putting dents in my rims. as for 'sinking to the good stuff', this I have no trouble.

I have a new pair of 34mm Challenge Grifos if you are still in need. Just shoot me an email.
 

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your absolutely right there

cxrcr said:
The Challenge tread is the same as the Dugast. Dugast does not produce its own treads, but instead purchases road and cyclocross treads from other companies and couples them with their own casings. They also custom manufacture tires with treads provided by select athletes. In a few races this year, Wellens and others had tires that looked like Michelin treads but were sewn onto Dugast casings. So the fact that Michelin treads were better than the Tufo is not surprising, in some circumstances they are. There are probably some situations where the old Specialized Tri-cross is better than both. This explains why you see pro's showing up at races with so many different tire combinations to try out. To say that one is any better than another is missing most of the point.

Anyway, tire choice is highly subjective and has a number of variables contributing to the complexity...thick mud, thin watery mud, lots of climbing on the course, climbing on grass or dirt, etc etc etc. Not to mention that riding successfully in mud is a well-honed skill as demonstrated by Page the last two years.

I was able to have a pretty close look at wellens bike the day after the nat champ and what did i see... yes the threads of the michelin on a dugast tube.
I'll let you in on another flemish cross secret when its really muddy dont oil oil lube the chain, baby powder is the anwser here gentlemen.

yall have a nice day
 
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