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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all

So, i need to do the Lactate Threshold fied test (30min time trial) to start doing some interval training. Problem is, where i ride, theres no route that allows for a 30min uninterrupted time trial. By the time I am at the spot where this is possible, I have already done a good 20km, fairly hilly.

So the question is (actually 3 questions):

1- Can I do this time trial on an Eliptical Cross Trainer? my concern is people might have different Thresholds for different sorts of activities, and my LT for cross training might turn out not very useful for cycling.

2- or should i go out easy for first 20km, and start my time trial thereafter?

3- or should i alternativey go for the Max Heart rate test on the 1.2km hill close to where i live (the really steep part of it is 800m) ? and if i go for this test, will it be as useful in interval training as LT? will i be missing on anything?

thanks heaps for your help
F
 

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You need at least 20k of riding before you can really do a TT, so ride out to the course as a warm-up.

Doing a TT on an Elliptical will be a good workout, but it won't give you any data that is applicable to cycling.
 

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How experienced are you, and how serious about developing race fitness?

My personal -- this is just from my experience, mind you -- opinion on the whole thing is that beginning riders shouldn't bother with the complexities of the "heart rate zones" training. You know when you're noodling, riding steady, going hard, or eyeballs exploding, don't you?

I didn't bother with all of that stuff until when I sat down with a coach for the first time and did an actual LT / V02 test. Even knowing that information, I still train with an HRM maybe 20% of the time. If I could afford a powermeter, it would be different, of course...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
i have a tendency to push hard everytime i go out training. I am hoping that setting some actual boundaries and a training program would solve this problem.

thanks again

Argentius said:
How experienced are you, and how serious about developing race fitness?

My personal -- this is just from my experience, mind you -- opinion on the whole thing is that beginning riders shouldn't bother with the complexities of the "heart rate zones" training. You know when you're noodling, riding steady, going hard, or eyeballs exploding, don't you?

I didn't bother with all of that stuff until when I sat down with a coach for the first time and did an actual LT / V02 test. Even knowing that information, I still train with an HRM maybe 20% of the time. If I could afford a powermeter, it would be different, of course...
 

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Burning Fists of Love
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rule of thumb

IMO, and what has worked for me is to train far and away harder than you intend to ride your TT.

That way, when the time comes, a BRIEF 15 to 20 minute watrm up shoukld be sufficient. Keeping a steady pace at a threshold you can hold will be far more efficient than just going nuts for 30 minutes. Training haerder IMO, gives you a mental edge and above all confidence in your ability to push to places where you think you might not have been able to go.

Good luck and ride well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Didn't quite get that. so your are proposing that i not worry about the TT and just train hard and far everytime? or go hard and fast before doing the TT? thanks mate

ttug said:
IMO, and what has worked for me is to train far and away harder than you intend to ride your TT.

That way, when the time comes, a BRIEF 15 to 20 minute watrm up shoukld be sufficient. Keeping a steady pace at a threshold you can hold will be far more efficient than just going nuts for 30 minutes. Training haerder IMO, gives you a mental edge and above all confidence in your ability to push to places where you think you might not have been able to go.

Good luck and ride well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I used to ride (hard) for fun a while back (maybe 8 years ago. I am 28 now),.
I got a bike in late march and have so far put into more than 2000km. (1200 since i got a computer in mid-late april i think)

recently i started joining a club for Sunday rides (80km). I hang on with the fast boys for the entire ride. even on the sprints, i am still with the bunch. I don't win the sprint, but i am there. on my last ride, i chased for 10 minutes solo when they caught me offguard and broke away. I bridged and stayed. they themselves were chasing the other fast club ride.

The secretary of the club is now talking me into joining some races come July (he thinks i'm fit enough, and says i should do it for fun, regardless). and i agree and like the idea. He also thinks i can do well in track racing and proposed to lend me a track bike.

so you can say i am fairly serious about improving. I also love climbing (although i am 185cm 93kg.) and want to get better at it (hill intervals maybe?).

so I am worried that going all out everytime is not the best way to improve, and structuring a program will at least stop me from giving in to this temptation everytime i step out the door. thats why i want to sort out my LT.

is this a reasonable proposal?

thanks again for all the help



Argentius said:
How experienced are you, and how serious about developing race fitness?

My personal -- this is just from my experience, mind you -- opinion on the whole thing is that beginning riders shouldn't bother with the complexities of the "heart rate zones" training. You know when you're noodling, riding steady, going hard, or eyeballs exploding, don't you?

I didn't bother with all of that stuff until when I sat down with a coach for the first time and did an actual LT / V02 test. Even knowing that information, I still train with an HRM maybe 20% of the time. If I could afford a powermeter, it would be different, of course...
 

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almost

fouadaswad said:
Didn't quite get that. so your are proposing that i not worry about the TT and just train hard and far everytime? or go hard and fast before doing the TT? thanks mate
Train harder than you intend to ride. (As a general rule)

So, for example, in the weeks leading up to the TT, do steady states exceeding 30 minutes,, mix in very hard intervals work that exceed your LT. Then, taper, perhaps a few days early, do a warm up, perhaps 15 minutes just before the TT and your body should do the rest. The idea is to put out as much as you can without going above LT and hold that for 30 minutes. Thats NOT easy and why IMO, a TT can in some ways be the hardest discipline. Every person has a different level. The art is of course, training yourself to hold at threashold and endure that agony as long as you can. It is fun.
 

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You would be well served to start training a little bit smarter by incorporating more structure in your training. I would suggest by reading a book on training. Friel's 'Training Bible' is a good reference.

How many days per week are you riding? Let's assume you are riding 5 days a week.
You don't want to really hammer yourself for more than 3 of these rides. The other rides are easy recovery spins. Even on those 3 hard rides per week, you don't want to just hammer yourself silly, ideally you want to incoporate some kind of interval training.
 

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ttug said:
The idea is to put out as much as you can without going above LT and hold that for 30 minutes.
This is confusing advice. I think what you are saying is to pace yourself and try to hold a steady power output for the entire 30 minutes?

Not sure what you mean by "without going above LT," though. For a short time trial (which is how I'd classify a half hour TT), by definintion you'd be above functional threshold power (since FT is 40K/1hr power), and in a shorter TT you should be able to put out more than you could in a longer TT. I guess what I'm asking is how you are defining lactate threshold? And monitoring whether or not you are above it during your TT?
 

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definitions

shawndoggy said:
This is confusing advice. I think what you are saying is to pace yourself and try to hold a steady power output for the entire 30 minutes?

Not sure what you mean by "without going above LT," though. For a short time trial (which is how I'd classify a half hour TT), by definintion you'd be above functional threshold power (since FT is 40K/1hr power), and in a shorter TT you should be able to put out more than you could in a longer TT. I guess what I'm asking is how you are defining lactate threshold? And monitoring whether or not you are above it during your TT?
In my experience, I have defined LT s the point where if I go over that effort, my legs become wood and I have to stop.

Even in a shorter TT, I would not attempt going harder, ie more than in a longer TT. Of course, this i how my body allows me to approach a TT. It will be different for other folks.Personally, I have regretted taking the go harder on the shoirter TT suggestion as without taking course or weather into consideration, this could be a recipe for blowing up.

I did try HRMs for a bit, but I found after a while that I could gauge efforts and results better by feel. Yes, its not scientific as I guiess you want to find, but I trained enough that gauging for me was a better metric than relaying on a HRM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
yes thats my intention. after 200km of hammering full on i want to train smarter. my goals are to improve my general riding fitness, become faster in the long run (not sprint power) get better at extended hill climbing and have faster recovery times after sudden bursts of power (short hill or sudden chase). (i think im a bit ambitious). but anyways i am thinking of doing something along these lines:

Tue: 25-30 min X2 or 50-60 minX1 at LT (96-100% of LT).
Wed: 1min X5 sprint intervals (alternating steep hill and regular course each week) 106 and above (all-out i guess)
Thurs: 1 hr Recovery 65-75% of LT
Fri: Rest
Sat: Long ride (60-90km) still thinking about zones here. and am inclined to dump the monitor and enjoy the ride. it will have some good hills if i stretch it to 90km.
Sun: Group ride with the club (80km). will keep up with the fast bunch, so no monitor here.
Mon: Rest

this is all on the road. i dont have a trainer and am not very keen about it.

what do you think? am i confused? let me know your thoughts on this program, including the order of workouts. thanks heaps all.

by the way, i attempted the time trial this sunday. i was able to hold a heart rate between 159-162 bpm for the entire 30 minutes. tried to lift it up at times but could not come up with the power. i think that was the best i could do. Avg. BPM for the last 20 min was 159. for first 10min it was 162. I think i am satisfied with an LT of 160 at this point. might hit the hill and try and figure out my max heart rate sometime soon, just for the heck of it. the 220-age formula says i would be around 190. I think if my heart rate hits 190 i would be dead. or maybe not (160/0.85 = 188).

thanks all again.
 
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