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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

I have a new 2011 Madone 6.2 with full Ultegra. I have about 500 miles on it so far and am having rear derailleur shifting issues. I have taken it back to the shop for a quick tune up and it was fine....for awhile. I rode the Tour de Cure and after that shifting down to a higher gear will stick. It is usually in the 4 to 8 gear range. Shifting up to the larger gears seems OK. I was told that because of the internal cabling system, there is drag on the cables. I'm going to take it back in this week but have any one had experience with this issue whether it is a Madone or another brand with internal cabling? Your opinions and advice are greatly appreciated.:thumbsup:

Millman
 

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Happily absent RBR Member
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For no good reason, Shimano cables and Shimano cable lube seem to work better - from what I've heard. There is nothing wrong with Jagwire, so I can't comment on why that should be.

Making sure you have smooth cable bends - especially at the rear derailleur loop which most mechanics cut too tight - can help. But you are witnessing the downside to even lighter return springs, under the tape cables and 2:1 actuation - it is very difficult to make a shift system feel ultralight and smooth while contending with internal routing friction.
 

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Yea, I noticed when I was riding an internally-routed frame (Kestrel Talon) that shifting needed more regular adjustment simply due to grime liking to get/stick into housing. Nothing to due with more "drag", but simply because places like the BB were very prone to collecting dirt and gunking up housing.
 

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2 things, make sure they check the hanger, I sell madones. Even new ones come out of the box with hangars that are bent/off, and after short periods can be bent/off. There is a also tendency to cross the cables internally. I have seen them come from Trek AND from dealers this way. The shifting issues with crossed cables show themselves more when in the big ring as the tension increase.

Ps The Shimano Cables do work better than Jagwire, and the gore systems are even better yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Cables and Hanger

2 things, make sure they check the hanger, I sell madones. Even new ones come out of the box with hangars that are bent/off, and after short periods can be bent/off. There is a also tendency to cross the cables internally. I have seen them come from Trek AND from dealers this way. The shifting issues with crossed cables show themselves more when in the big ring as the tension increase.

Ps The Shimano Cables do work better than Jagwire, and the gore systems are even better yet.
Thanks for your quick answer. I thought about the hanger being bent. I have a Jamis Dragon that shifted the very same way. bottom sprockets OK, top sprockets OK, just the shifting in the middle sucked. Where do the cables cross? As they enter the down tube or internally from there? Thanks again.

Millman
 

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'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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if the cables aren't routed correctly they cross inside the down tube. it's not that hard to do correctly if you're paying attention, but if the bike-builder or shop mechanic just shoves the cables in to the frame, they can cross very easily. it's an easy fix, just takes a bit of time.
 

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Simpler explanation

I rode the Tour de Cure and after that shifting down to a higher gear will stick. It is usually in the 4 to 8 gear range.
Any chance you were drinking something sugary during that event and got some gunk on the cable guide under the BB? The other explanations offered are all possibilities as well.
 

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Adventure Seeker
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Making sure you have smooth cable bends - especially at the rear derailleur loop which most mechanics cut too tight - can help.
I've seen this issue pop up quite a bit around here with Trek bikes. So, this would be my first inclination. I do believe most of the short rear housings have to do with the Giant made Treks, not the US made ones though. The other suggestions are also very valid and possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
We put the bike on the stand and started from scratch with the rear adjustments. My son, the bike mechanic, reset the initial tension on the derailleur and started the tightening with the adjuster. He has more patience than me and got the system shifting decently. I still feel that my old 105's shifted better. I'm still not convinced that better cables would help. will the gore system sleeve fit through the internal cable guides?

Millman
 

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I have a 2011 5.2 that has the internal cables, and full 6700 Ultegra.
When I first got it, it shifted awful. I had just went from a 09 4.5, and was very disapointed. After several trips back to the shop, they replaced the shift cables to shimano Dura-Ace, and I have had no more issues. I have since heard that the real problem was the cables getting crossed, and therefore hung up in the down tube.( Per Trek Tech Dept.) The problem with the new cables was actually solved most likely because they were re installed without getting crossed. I have also heard from several people, and one shop that the GORE ride on pro cables really work outstanding with the internal routing. I am getting about 4,000 miles on my bike, and will give the GORE cables a try when I have them replaced. Once I got the initial shift problems ironed out, I have not had a problem, and I love my bike.
 

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The Gore system will competely change the shifting, in a GOOD way! Having said that, the stock Jagwire housing and cables have a HUGE amount of drag when the housing is bent(& it bends quite a bit from the shifter to the downtube, then again at the rear end! I've replaced the Jagwire with Shimano on a TON of internal Treks and the results have always been greatly improved shifting. The new 7900 coated Dura-Ace cables are also a huge improvement when paired with "under the tape" routing. BUT, they're so damn expensive that you might as well go with Gore.
 

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I sell Trek as well and have had bikes come from the factory with the cables crossed internally, we specifically check for it on every internally routed bike. However, we have not had an issue with the cable/ housing bends causing shifting issues. We sell a ton of Shimano equipped 5&6 series bikes and no issues thus far for us.
 

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@jimmythekidd, weird... we sell a ton of Trek and I've had many of them this yr and last have very heavy shifting action(some are ok, none great with Jagwire). I'm aware of the crosses cable issue and have checked that on all. I also see this problem on 4 series that have no internal dt cables. In every instance I've gotten resuts by swapping to SP-41(yes, I have ordered white to match all the damn treks). While I can see no reason the Jagwire cables & housing should cause binding, it does! This problem(with new shifter cable routing) is the sole reason Shimano coats the 1st 12-16" of D/A cables.
 
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