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ViAS is not a bike. Stop calling it the Venge ViAS, that's not it's name.

It's a scumbag marketing tool/claim about a "total aerodynamic package of our products."

Call it what it is, a Venge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
ViAS is not a bike. Stop calling it the Venge ViAS, that's not it's name.

It's a scumbag marketing tool/claim about a "total aerodynamic package of our products."

Call it what it is, a Venge.
Interesting... seems like Specialized is pretty keen on calling it that, which to me, means that is the name. Now, you may be right, it may be all marketing jargon, but as far as I'm concerned, that's the name and that's the way I differentiate it from the 1st. generation Venge.
 

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The S-Works version supposedly comes in at 16.9lbs (56cm) vs the 17.55lb of the pro but that is still 1.71lbs heavier.

Looking at the wind tunnel comparisons it looks like you trade ~2 watts for 2 lbs between the two bikes and the Madone is more comfortable.

While I find the "comfort" thing to be somewhat subjective as I don't find my current venge harsh despite seeing it described as such by many, that 1.71lbs would make a difference especially with all the hills around here.

I can't afford either right now but it looks like the Madone has the advantage this round. An aero bike without the typical drawbacks. Maybe specialized can find some way to drop some of that weight in the future.
 

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The Venge wins in the aero department, likely, because of the 64mm wheels vs. the 50mm Bontragers. The Madone wins based on weight and comfort. I wonder if the weight issue would have been slightly different if the Venge ViAS was an S-Works model.
According to the Tour magazine aero test of 2016, there really isn't a difference between the Venge ViAS or the Madone. They both tested at 204w. That is 1 watt faster than the Cervelo and Felt, both that use standard front brakes and non-intergrated cockpits.




This graph looks more closely at the Venge ViAS vs. Madone at the full yaw sweep. Both are basically the same at low yaw. However, at higher yaw the Madone performs better.

Yaw on x-axis, CdA on y-axis:





If I had to pick between the Trek or Specialized, not sure I would even consider the Specialized. I really don't see the benefit it offers over the Trek. Not to mention the aesthetics of the Specialized are very questionable. Either you like it or really hate it.

I think the bigger take away is how little gain in performance Trek and Specialized managed from the highly integrated route and use of proprietary parts over the Cervelo and Felt. I'd rather go with one of those, optimize my aero road handlebar and throw on an aero front brake like a TriRig. Would be cheaper. Just as fast. Easier to wrench on. Plus not have to worry about getting a proprietary part if something ever broke on it.
 

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Agree with you. Good post. Issue with aero bike is...if a mfr really tries to optimize frameset tube section for aerodynamics, they shoot themselves in the foot for both vertical compliance and lateral stiffness. This is where the Madone shines...decouples ride quality with a pivot at the seatpost.
Not only is the Venge heavy but doesn't have the ride quality of a Madone or a Tarmac for that matter.

The other thing about integration and in the case of the new Venge, that is the ugliest stem I have ever seen, what you will see over the next 5-10 years will be the obsoleting of any need for stem integration and internal cable routing through the stem. Sram's new E-tap and FSA new electronic groupset will obsolete this relatively new frame technology. Further, you know that Shimano and Campy will follow suit with wireless groupsets....or minimally wired and stand alone shifters and derailleurs that talk to one another without wires....where electric shifting is headed.
I like the new Madone all said, but I am not a fan of internal stem cable routing either. I am a big Spesh fan but wouldn't own the new Venge especially at the price premium


According to the Tour magazine aero test of 2016, there really isn't a difference between the Venge ViAS or the Madone. They both tested at 204w. That is 1 watt faster than the Cervelo and Felt, both that use standard front brakes and non-intergrated cockpits.




This graph looks more closely at the Venge ViAS vs. Madone at the full yaw sweep. Both are basically the same at low yaw. However, at higher yaw the Madone performs better.

Yaw on x-axis, CdA on y-axis:





If I had to pick between the Trek or Specialized, not sure I would even consider the Specialized. I really don't see the benefit it offers over the Trek. Not to mention the aesthetics of the Specialized are very questionable. Either you like it or really hate it.

I think the bigger take away is how little gain in performance Trek and Specialized managed from the highly integrated route and use of proprietary parts over the Cervelo and Felt. I'd rather go with one of those, optimize my aero road handlebar and throw on an aero front brake like a TriRig. Would be cheaper. Just as fast. Easier to wrench on. Plus not have to worry about getting a proprietary part if something ever broke on it.
 

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They really like the canyon and the foil.

On a somewhat related note looks like Kittel got the first VIAS win of the season?

I think the madone already had one with Fabian.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)

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interesting... Marcel Kittel and Nikolas Maes both riding Venge Viaswith standard cockpits.

are you sure about Kittels' . I mean it does not have the riser bar.. but the riser bar is based on need of fit, it's necessary standard.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
are you sure about Kittels' . I mean it does not have the riser bar.. but the riser bar is based on need of fit, it's necessary standard.
youre looking at a PR image from weeks ago. Look at the images from the race today.
 

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Yep, that is a different stem and you can see the external cables as well.

One more thought, what are the chances of them making a version of the frame where the goose neck is eliminated or made into a separate piece so that a frame running a normal stem would look more like the front end of the current venge. Maybe in the following years as the tech trickles down to lower end models of the venge?
 

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Yep, that is a different stem and you can see the external cables as well.

One more thought, what are the chances of them making a version of the frame where the goose neck is eliminated or made into a separate piece so that a frame running a normal stem would look more like the front end of the current venge. Maybe in the following years as the tech trickles down to lower end models of the venge?
They have to oblige to FSA cockpit endorsements deals, that's why they made this version with cable ports to accept an FSA cockpit
 

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According to the Tour magazine aero test of 2016, there really isn't a difference between the Venge ViAS or the Madone. They both tested at 204w. That is 1 watt faster than the Cervelo and Felt, both that use standard front brakes and non-intergrated cockpits.




This graph looks more closely at the Venge ViAS vs. Madone at the full yaw sweep. Both are basically the same at low yaw. However, at higher yaw the Madone performs better.

Yaw on x-axis, CdA on y-axis:





If I had to pick between the Trek or Specialized, not sure I would even consider the Specialized. I really don't see the benefit it offers over the Trek. Not to mention the aesthetics of the Specialized are very questionable. Either you like it or really hate it.

I think the bigger take away is how little gain in performance Trek and Specialized managed from the highly integrated route and use of proprietary parts over the Cervelo and Felt. I'd rather go with one of those, optimize my aero road handlebar and throw on an aero front brake like a TriRig. Would be cheaper. Just as fast. Easier to wrench on. Plus not have to worry about getting a proprietary part if something ever broke on it.

That's the takeaway, how little there was to gain out of a new generation of frame, cockpit integration etc. Aero frames are getting close to squeezing all the juice out of the orange now.
And the alternative you describe is exactly what I did, go with a 2015 S5, put a Tririg caliper on front, and clean up all the Di2 stuff, putting the wires out of sight and the main junction box inside the frame and now working on a mount that puts the garmin mainly out of the airstream.
Surely the aero caliper and wire/junction cleanup got much of the difference between the S5 and these two frames back... and it's significantly lighter than the Venge and brakes work better.
On what to call the Venge, people should refer to it in whatever way they feel like if the context makes it clear which variant they're referring to. The VIAS is so much different from the older model that you're gonna have to delineate between the two sometimes... there is something to the criticism of the smoke-and-mirrors marketing, but there will be times it HAS to be labelled as VIAS or people won't understand you.
Specialized doesn't do things half-assed and I would expected the next venge redesign to get the weight out, have better off-axis aerodynamics and better brakes.
Just hope we don't have to wait five years for it.
 

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Yeah the Cervelo S5 with a few add ons to clean up the front end seems like the way to go still for a very fast bike + that is also simple enough to wrench on in your own garage.

One thing of note, I have heard several Venge ViAS riders complain of their front brake hitting the down tube under braking. This is due to the fork flexing which then allows enough movement to cause the front brake and downtube to hit.

I don't want to rain on the parade, but the Venge ViAS seems to have some nice ideas, just the way they were implemented doesn't seem to have been that great for a large and successful company like Specialized.
 

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Yeah the Cervelo S5 with a few add ons to clean up the front end seems like the way to go still for a very fast bike + that is also simple enough to wrench on in your own garage.

One thing of note, I have heard several Venge ViAS riders complain of their front brake hitting the down tube under braking. This is due to the fork flexing which then allows enough movement to cause the front brake and downtube to hit.

I don't want to rain on the parade, but the Venge ViAS seems to have some nice ideas, just the way they were implemented doesn't seem to have been that great for a large and successful company like Specialized.
All true. With the caveat that it's crucial for large, successful companies to take risks, to push R&D, and what specialized tried to do, and mainly pulled off, was great. Once you toss out the marketing BS.
It seems like even a few modest model-year tweaks could go a long way to fixing the issues, which in my mind, except for the weight, are pretty small things.
They pushed the envelope much, much further than anyone has for awhile, and that's what I, for one, want to see out of american companies. I passed on this particular bike, even with a major discount, but it's hard not to be a fanboy of their engineering and thinking.
 

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There's a picture or two floating around of a new Venge frame with normal single bolt caliper mounts. I too have heard about the fork/frame hitting the downtube during braking... sounds terrible.
 
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