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Hi everyone

has anyone seen/read any studies comparing the level of grip of Krylion Carbon (23c) against ProRace(2/3) or Conti GP4000? Wet and Dry? And comparing rolling resistance ?

I know Krylion lasts longer and protects against punctures better than most other "racing/training" tyres but what is the negative side? Dangerous when wet? or cornering in dry also poor?

Thanks
 

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I've never read any studies but I ride Michelin carbons all the time. I almost never get flats but that may have alot to do with the fact that I'm constantly wiping off my tires as I ride. But I love those tires, they may not be quite as grippy as others or pro 3 but they seem pretty good to me. I always go back to them sometimes using carbon on the rear and a pro race on the front. Also I ride pretty close to max pressure. 110-120 psi.
100 or so if racing in the rain.
I've heard others say they're not as supple as pro but I've never found lack of suppleness a problem plus I like the fact that I can rely on them.
 

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I don't race, but have Krylions and love them. I ride them in the wet, in the cold, in the dry, on short rides, on long rides, etc. Very flat-proof, and I ride on a lot of dirt roads. My rear has 4000 miles on it and still is fine-- kind of flat down the middle but that's it.

If you're training, then I doubt you'd even come close to the edge of the performance envelope with these tires, much less a Conti Hometrainer tire (at least I wouldn't). I can't comment on if they are worthy of a tight crit.

For me, the relatively low cost, fairly low weight (the weight benefits truly are all in my head), and especially the reliability make it the perfect tire. I ride a lot in rural Vermont and need a tire that won't make me late for when my wife needs to get to her yoga class (2 kids at home). So far, I still have most of my tailfeathers....
 

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There is a difference between the 2, but it is very marginal. The difference is because of what the tires are made out of. The carbon based material will get a little better mileage while the co-extruded silica compound will get a bit better grip in the wet.

With that being said, I generally use the MICHELIN Pro2 Race, now the MICHELIN Pro3 race in the summer time, but only use the MICHELIN Krylion Carbons in the winter time and winter here in New Hampshire can be kind of rough. I can say I do this because of the amount of salt and debris on the road in the winter and I have honestly never gotten a flat. With all of the snow and slush, I have never found there to be a grip issue and those tires.
 

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acid_rider said:
Hi everyone

has anyone seen/read any studies comparing the level of grip of Krylion Carbon (23c) against ProRace(2/3) or Conti GP4000? Wet and Dry? And comparing rolling resistance ?

I know Krylion lasts longer and protects against punctures better than most other "racing/training" tyres but what is the negative side? Dangerous when wet? or cornering in dry also poor?

Thanks
Some European magazines test tires yearly and the results get posted here sometimes. So search these forums.

IIRC, the Carbons are not quite as fast as the ProRace but they're still faster than most other race tires, and their grip is top notch.

Contrary to advertising, and conventional wisdom, old fashioned carbon black grips slightly better, while silica is better for low rolling resistance, and of course fashion colors. The differences are so small it's not worth worrying about though.

I was surprised how poorly some popular Continental tires scored. The latest ones might be better.

If you're willing to pay 2-4 times as much in terms of mileage per dollar, and put up with a lot more flats, you can get tires that ride slightly smoother than Carbons. Other than that, no downside to the Carbons. I've been really happy with them, wet, dry, hot, cold, whatever.
 

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mattotoole said:
Contrary to advertising, and conventional wisdom, old fashioned carbon black grips slightly better, while silica is better for low rolling resistance, and of course fashion colors. The differences are so small it's not worth worrying about though.
It depends on the company's expertise with silica and carbon black. Silica is a very difficult material to work with. Consider putting silica (much like sand) in your compound mixers. One it is very hard on equipment in regard to wear and also it is very hard to disperse evenly / properly through out the compound. Imagine pancake batter smooth versus lumpy. Often the silica mixing takes a two step process raising manufacturing cost further than just increased mixing equipment wear.

Michelin has a lot of experience pioneering successful use or blending of silica. In the early 90's Michelin was able to blend silica to provide lower rolling resistance while enhancing wet and snow grip as well as not compromising wear or dry grip for automobiles. PROPERLY mixed silica raised the bar for tire performance. Yes all that performance can be put to rolling resistance but it could also be concentrated on grip. The grip example of this is Michelin's Pro Grip. This tire use's a compound from Motorcycle GP racing and Automobile (Leman's Endurance and F1) that has incredible wet (60% better than our Pro2 Race) and dry grip with good rolling resistant properties and the latter Pro2 Grip (and future Pro3 Grip) have enhanced wear characteristics from the original.

I will say it is easy to just throw silica in the compound mix to "market" a silica compound. This poorly blended mix (think lumpy pancake batter) can result in enhanced rolling resistance but usually at the cost of other attributes such as wear or grip.

Michelin pushes for low rolling resistance but grip is always very important. Each tire has specific performance targets. Our new Pro3 Race improves wet and dry grip (20% on center and 40% when cornering) with new silica compounding while maintaining the low rolling resistance and tread wear of the Pro2 Race. In our Krylion Carbon we use a traditional carbon black reinforced tread compound to provide long mileage (with a good level of grip and rolling resistance) to compliment the bead to bead reinforced casing for a robust and durable tire.
 

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We used to get Pro 2 Race tires as part of a club deal and I hated them. Flatted constantly, felt like grip was lacking. We were getting at least 1-2 guys in every race flatting with them. I swore Michelin out.

But then we got this year's shipment in. Some of the younger riders in the team still wanted the Pro 2s in various colors to match their bikes. I noticed that the box had several sets of Pro 3 so I went and picked those instead. Wasn't expecting much but I was pleasantly surprised to find that they were plenty light, had very good grip and very good rolling resistance. Only two negatives: 1) you can see that the center section is not perfectly aligned for the whole length of the tread so if you stare at it as it's rolling you see a little weave in the center section. NO BIG DEAL. The other thing, as others have noted , is that they truly run narrow compared to, say, Pro 2s. They measure more like a 21 than a 23.

Now back to Krylions. I got a pair after reading many of the posts here and I can honestly say I LOVE these tires. They were not much heavier than the Pro 3s (220-230g IIRC), they were "normal" width for a Michelin 23. And, they have very good grip and, at least to me, a much nicer ride than the Pro3s or Pro2s. Puncture resistance has been outstanding over all conditions. I have begun recommending them a lot to my teammates as a great alternative for training and even racing tires.
 

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A source that I have always felt was pretty reliable recently told me that Michelin doesn't make thier own bike tires. Sure, he agrees, it's suprising, given that Michelin is such a huge tire company. But - he claims they have all the tire manufacturing capbility in the world, except for bike tires, which they outsource to Vittoria. Who, oh who can can respond to this with authority?
 

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brujenn said:
A source that I have always felt was pretty reliable recently told me that Michelin doesn't make thier own bike tires. Sure, he agrees, it's suprising, given that Michelin is such a huge tire company. But - he claims they have all the tire manufacturing capbility in the world, except for bike tires, which they outsource to Vittoria. Who, oh who can can respond to this with authority?
I can report with authority about this topic.

Michelin bicycle tires are recently manufactured in Thailand and Taiwan, to be closer to the major bicycle manufacturers factories, using exclusive Michelin's technology, tools and quality processes.
 

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I've learned the hard way that krylions are a little sketchy in the wet. If you're doing a lot of riding on wet roads, you might want to look elsewhere. But other than that, I can honestly say that these are the best training tires I've ever tried. The roll great, if it's dry they corner pretty well, and they are tougher than nails.
 

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I had never used Michelin tires on my bike, but I had used them on my cars exclusively...summer and winter...So when my stock Specialized tires were in need of replacing I hit the web and found a number of threads extolling the virtues of the Krylion Carbons. I decided to give them a try and I have never looked back. On my latest bike, an 08 Spec. Tarmac, I immediately replaced the stock tires with the Krylions.

I get really good mileage, good grip in wet and dry and a nice ride. There really isn't any negatives for me....Only one is price and availability here in Canada, but that is solved with ebay...
 

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I'm a real fan of Krylions. Started with the old Carbons and have had a number of Krylions. Currently use them on my winter bike here in UK but also as training tire on my race bike. The question is: where can they be purchased? Can't find 25mm anywhere in the UK. Is the situation the same in North America? All kinds of rumors here that the presses are being used for Race 3 so no production capacity for Krylion or that they have been flat out discontinued. Michelin Man, can you enlighten us? Thanks!
 

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I really like these tires. I have put them on my commuter and wonder why I have not gone to them sooner. I have traversed glass fields, chip seal, construction road debris, and lots of other junk and have not had a single problem. Granted only the first 400 miles so far but not bad. They ride well, and the grip has been great. I have not felt any problems in the wet on them, but I am not doing crits in the rain on them either.

Monte
 

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canamdad said:
The question is: where can they be purchased? Can't find 25mm anywhere in the UK. Is the situation the same in North America? All kinds of rumors here that the presses are being used for Race 3 so no production capacity for Krylion or that they have been flat out discontinued. Michelin Man, can you enlighten us? Thanks!
The Krylion Carbon is not discontinued. It will be available in October in North America. There is currently a shortage, as production was moved from France to Thailand and industrialization is in process.
 

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Krylions here

I have been using Krylions as my every day tire and PR2's as a racing tire (although I no longer race.....so I'm still waiting form my K's to wear out so I can switch to using the PR2's. SE PA hear with some terrible roads...and not a single flat yet.

Michael
www.MLKimages.com
 

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canamdad said:
I'm a real fan of Krylions. Started with the old Carbons and have had a number of Krylions. Currently use them on my winter bike here in UK but also as training tire on my race bike. The question is: where can they be purchased? Can't find 25mm anywhere in the UK. Is the situation the same in North America? All kinds of rumors here that the presses are being used for Race 3 so no production capacity for Krylion or that they have been flat out discontinued. Michelin Man, can you enlighten us? Thanks!
I'm looking to go to the 25's too. Anyone have any reviews, especially in comparison to 23's, Currently I've got GP 4000, 23's on a Neuvation wheelset but I prefer my Gatorskin 23' rear and gp 4000 23 front on Mavic open pro's.

Comments, suggestions. I ride with about 95 to 100psi in my tires and am about 175lbs.

Any noticeable difference with the 25's?
 

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It's good to know that Krylions will be available in Oct although a lot of people are going to have to buy some other tire to get them through. CRC & PBK are showing no stock in 25mm. Actually, Ribble (UK) has the cheapest price but that's a mute point because they don't have any either. As for going 25mm, I bought some in 2003 to do a century ride in CO that had a rather long dirt section in it and then put back on my 23mm. But when I moved to Ottawa, ON, the roads were atrocious so back to the 25's. I just find them a lot more comfortable for harsh road conditions. The good cycling roads (low traffic) here in the UK are often very rough with holes and patches on patches so the 25's just add a little bit more comfort. I think that the small increase in weight is well worth it
 
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