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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I read in a UK mag that Dan Martin has been riding less and spending more time in the gym, doing high-rep squats and leg presses, sometimes three sessions a week. Seems to have worked out well for him.

I know, I know...this is anecdotal and has no validity, blah, blah. Go ahead and site your short-term, small sample size studies indicating weight-training is no good.
 

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Awesome - would love the details on his workout. I've been thinking of adding a high-rep session to my routine - any chance you can provide a link or a brief summary of what his session looks like?

I read in a UK mag that Dan Martin has been riding less and spending more time in the gym, doing high-rep squats and leg presses, sometimes three sessions a week. Seems to have worked out well for him.

I know, I know...this is anecdotal and has no validity, blah, blah. Go ahead and site your short-term, small sample size studies indicating weight-training is no good.
 

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My wife and I were watching some of the spring classics and noticed that the riders in general are looking bigger. Maybe it's because it's early spring, or they are lifting more, or it could be our TV.

Maybe they gotta do something different if they can't take EPO any more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Kristatos, sorry...the article didn't provide any details about his routine, other than high-rep squats and leg presses. I can't even recall the name of the mag now, sorry.

vetboy, if you have something to say, say it, ya creep.
 

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I do a routine in conjunction with general core work but, it's more geared towards injury prevention than anything else. It was prescribed by a PT:

-Warm up
-Stretches
-3X10 single leg presses on a machine with bands for resistance. Light resistance to get range and warm up
-3X10 leg presses on same machine. Very light resistance...same as above.
-3X30 leg press machine with 10 reps wide stance, 10 mid and 10 narrow.
-3X15 pushing the sled back (glute kicks?). Machine used has resistance bands.
-3X15 Adduction then 3X15 abduction.
-3X20 step ups.
-3X12 seated hamstring machine.

I think that about it. Nothing replaces time on the bike for generating good prolonged power though. Again, injury prevention for me.
 

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I read in a UK mag that Dan Martin has been riding less and spending more time in the gym, doing high-rep squats and leg presses, sometimes three sessions a week. Seems to have worked out well for him.

I know, I know...this is anecdotal and has no validity, blah, blah. Go ahead and site your short-term, small sample size studies indicating weight-training is no good.
I think the issue for most of us is the 'bang for your buck' part of weight training. Sure, weight training is good for you and may add a bit to your cycling, but if I only have an hour to do a workout I can't see how squats will make me a faster cyclist than 2x20s. If I had 6 hours to spend training, then I'd consider some weight lifting in addition to riding.
 

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This whole lower-body weight training thing is a bunch of malarkey.
Several well respected posters put this to bed ages ago. Unless you
are either elderly or infirm and a non-serious rider, squatting\leg lifting
is either counter or nonproductive. The amount of actual strength used in
pedaling is not the issue, cycling is an endurance, not a strength based
activity. Muscle produced by weightlifting is not capillary dense, or mitochondrially
substantial enough to be adequately sustained by the cardiovascular system.
I remember getting on a bike back in college when I was squatting over 500
for reps. That strength was totally irrelevant to cycling. Additionally, if you
are riding hard enough to be making gains in cycling, no way are you going
to feel like doing squats on your off day! And on the next day after doing
meaninful (in terms of gaining actual muscle) I could hardly stand up let
alone ride a bike! Malarkey
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Malarkey, if you squat 500, I doubt your limiter is "strength." A twig like Dan Martin, otoh, may benefit from off-season squats. And who is to say that high-rep training doesn't help muscle endurance? (now is when you cite some half-ass, flawed study from Moose Jaw Junior college).

I did a race last week that ended in an uphill sprint----you can't convince me there's not a "strength" component to cycling.
 

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...you can't convince me there's not a "strength" component to cycling.
Exactly. When you hold a faith-based belief, no amount of evidence can contradict it.

But for those with an open mind, the fact that when leg strength for professional cyclists was compared to the general age-matched, untrained population, no difference could be found should indicate that leg strength does not play a role in differentiating road cycling performances.
 

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I apologize for becoming exasperated, it's just that definitive information has
already been posted here, I believe by Kerry Irons and Alex Simmons regarding
this very topic, and I have a hard time believing that in the course of coming to
this forum someone has either not read, not comprehended, or chosen to ignore
the factual evidence and reposted for the umpteenth time another amatuer hearsay
thread which wastes everyone's time reading. I will remain silent in the future, having
been the grateful beneficiary of definitive factual information and having had a
sufficiently objective and open mind to assimilate this information permanently into
my thick skull.
 
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I know, I know...this is anecdotal and has no validity, blah, blah. Go ahead and site your short-term, small sample size studies indicating weight-training is no good.
You mean something more substantial then your breakthrough research with a sample size of one that was published in a magazine that you can't even remember the name of?

Dan Martin did not come from no where, and concluding he won recently because of spending some time in the gym seems like you may be grasping for straws.

Have a read of Hunter Allen and Andrew Coggan (Training with power), there is a part where they look at this topic using power meter data. The basics are, you do not come anywhere close to putting down your max power on a bike that you can in the gym, I think max on a bike is somewhere around 25% (I could be a little off but it's much less then your gym max). There evidence is only based on hundreds or thousands of power meter files, so they may need to include a bigger sample size ;)
 

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Have a read of Hunter Allen and Andrew Coggan (Training with power), there is a part where they look at this topic using power meter data. The basics are, you do not come anywhere close to putting down your max power on a bike that you can in the gym, I think max on a bike is somewhere around 25% (I could be a little off but it's much less then your gym max). There evidence is only based on hundreds or thousands of power meter files, so they may need to include a bigger sample size ;)
I would like to see a longitudinal study comparing squat and power to the pedals.

Let's say that a guy can squat 150lbs and has a 150 watt FTP. I'm using the same numbers for simplicity's sake, not because they are equivalent.

He's trained as a cyclist but not as a weight lifter.

Through six months of weight training raises that 150lb squat to 200lbs. A big jump in 1 rep max is typical for someone who just gets into weight training. Can we assume the gains in strength will be mirrored on the bike? (Will his 150 watt FTP jump to 200 watt FTP?) Is it a linear progression?

That does not sound right.
 

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Local Hero I have no idea. But a realistic increase on a bike would only be around 25% of that increase in maximal force would get translated into power on a bike, I assume that would be a closer guess then your linear suggestion. You would also need to convert to newtons or kilograms when working with force to get an idea, a pound does not equal a watt.

Let me follow on the bit I wrote above. 25% of maximal force was what an athlete was producing at FTP, in a sprint he did produced more at around 55% of maximal force. He produced a max 166% of his weight.


I think training at FTP will net you a bigger gains then simply lifting weights.


Alex Simmons as stated above could probably shed more light on this and I think he has if you search.
 

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Additionally, if you are riding hard enough to be making gains in cycling, no way are you going to feel like doing squats on your off day! And on the next day after doing meaninful (in terms of gaining actual muscle) I could hardly stand up let
alone ride a bike! Malarkey
I have to nitpick this one. From my own experience I can say this is false. I've been doing consistent strength training (yes, including squats) for a few months now, all while riding every day and training on the bike basically as though I wasn't doing anything else. In other words, I do both concurrently (as in the same day) at high intensities and plan my recovery as though that's the only activity I'm doing. I'm making great gains on the bike.

To be honest, if you can "hardly stand" the next day after riding hard on the bike or lifting, you're just not conditioned to that type of effort and need more experience.
 

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I have to nitpick this one. From my own experience I can say this is false. I've been doing consistent strength training (yes, including squats) for a few months now, all while riding every day and training on the bike basically as though I wasn't doing anything else. In other words, I do both concurrently (as in the same day) at high intensities and plan my recovery as though that's the only activity I'm doing. I'm making great gains on the bike.

To be honest, if you can "hardly stand" the next day after riding hard on the bike or lifting, you're just not conditioned to that type of effort and need more experience.
How do you know you wouldn't see the same or even better gains just cycling with the correct training?
 
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