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Discussion Starter #1
If I get milled through another office and perscribed Alieve I swear I'm gonna bloody scream. I've seen three and gotten no answers. Maybe someone here has had whatever I have. Heres the scenario.

April 2004, small bike crash while unemployed--not bad. May 2004, took job as stockroom manager. First time in my life in kicks all day, not heels. 60 hour work weeks climbing stairs for 8 months. Knees feel fine.

New job 1/3/05. Back in heels. Feburary. Start feeling occasional sharp pain in/underside of kneecap while on stairs (up or down, either knee). Pain hits on about every 10th step. Short, quick stabbing pain. Over time pain in Right knee gets worse. Walking up to 4 miles is fine. Cycling can agrivate it. Seems to come and go. Not every stroke, not every step, just occassional steps. Seems random.

August 15. Decide I want to be a runner when I grow up. Running aggrivates it more, but pig-head prevails. I suck-it-up and keep running. Its the worst after I stop running. Still only occasional steps. Pain is bad now. My knee begins to buckle when it happens and a pea sized lump has formed at the bottom edge of my knee cap.

Nov 10. Decide running is a bad idea. Hit gym. Elyptical is okay, but knee stays tweaked. Dec. 30, sucomb to dreaded 8 week slothfest. See yet another doctor. X-Ray is OK. Says take Aleive 1000MG/day.

Today, even walking 2 miles tweaks it bad. My first few steps upstairs after I stop buckle my knee. Pain will be hit or miss for several days, then will get better if I don't workout. Rinse, repeat.

I fear that I've torn something that can't heal on its own, but I am not sure and doctors never do much. I will have no insurance in 3 months--screw IT, I'm going back to school. Anyone here have any ideas.
 

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No ideas, but you really need to see someone who knows what they are doing. Rehab might or might not help. A Doctor who knows what he is doing will help, for sure. Could be something as simple as a tendon that locates your kneecap (or not)
 

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You need to see a specialist, not a doctor.

Kristin said:
If I get milled through another office and perscribed Alieve I swear I'm gonna bloody scream. I've seen three and gotten no answers. Maybe someone here has had whatever I have. Heres the scenario.


I fear that I've torn something that can't heal on its own, but I am not sure and doctors never do much. I will have no insurance in 3 months--screw IT, I'm going back to school. Anyone here have any ideas.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
A specialist who is not a doctor?

bas said:
You need to see a specialist, not a doctor.
Where do I find one of those? Last two guys I saw were Orthopedic surgeons who both "specialize" in knees. However, I think doctors today mostly specialize in collecting copay's.
 

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Amen. ..... A Doctor that I fired last year was just like that. had me going back there every month, just to collect his co-pay (and a hefty insurance payment). I see the new guy every 6 months.
Down where you live, aren't most Doctors also Vets?
 

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When you saw the first doctor(s), what was the diagnosis? I'm guessing that it was not a ligament or cartilage tear. My guess based upon what little information you have provided is either jumpers or runners knee (tendonitis) or osteoarthritis. I'm not a doctor and will not profess to give you medical advice. However, as a middle aged former basketball player, I suffer from a bit of tendonitis and osteoarthritis and chondromalacia patella and Iliotibial band syndrome. It's all part of getting older, having a desk job now and having abused my less than perfect knees when I was younger.

What I have found as the best treatment for my knees is cycling (make sure your seat is at right height) and stretching. If I don't do my stretches, my knees flare up. If I'm stupid and try to play basketball for 3 hours, my knees flare up. If I go out for the first bike ride in months and turn big gears, my knees flare up. However, if I stretch and ride regularly, I'm fine.

Based upon what you have said, I would stop wearing the high heels until pain is controlled. I would also stop the running until the pain is controlled. I would see a doctor and push for an anti-inflammatory for a couple of weeks to help reduce the inflammation and I would also strongly encourage an evaluation by a physical therapist to see if you can be helped by strengthening or streching program. If they give you a stretching program or strengthening program, stick to it for life. You may be able to cut back on it but keep it as part of your normal work-out routine. It's not sexy but rest and a good PT program can make many knee issues manageable and often are a better solution than surgery.
 

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I mostly agree with Rockstar, sounds like tendonitis. The Alieve is and anti-inflammatory, easier onthe stomach, cause you don't take so much. I would suggest finding and Athletic Trainer or someone who specializes in sports related injuries and rehab. Most PT's are used to dealing with worker's comp cases, unless you could turn this into a workers comp case :rolleyes: I got a book on Amazon by Walton, or something like that, on stretching, totally changed my knee problems. I had most of the same symptoms, most of the time. You can also wrap your knee to keep it warm, will help aleiviate the tendonitis.
 

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I had a similar problem with my kness also. Saw Dr. and they just want to medicate and rest. So i went to a acupressurist, message therapist and found out that I had muscle
knots in the upper part of my calfs. This due to my tendancy to pedal with heels up.
Just check out your local Chiropractic office. Hope it helps
 

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From

Kristin said:
If I get milled through another office and perscribed Alieve I swear I'm gonna bloody scream. I've seen three and gotten no answers. Maybe someone here has had whatever I have. Heres the scenario.

April 2004, small bike crash while unemployed--not bad. May 2004, took job as stockroom manager. First time in my life in kicks all day, not heels. 60 hour work weeks climbing stairs for 8 months. Knees feel fine.

New job 1/3/05. Back in heels. Feburary. Start feeling occasional sharp pain in/underside of kneecap while on stairs (up or down, either knee). Pain hits on about every 10th step. Short, quick stabbing pain. Over time pain in Right knee gets worse. Walking up to 4 miles is fine. Cycling can agrivate it. Seems to come and go. Not every stroke, not every step, just occassional steps. Seems random.

August 15. Decide I want to be a runner when I grow up. Running aggrivates it more, but pig-head prevails. I suck-it-up and keep running. Its the worst after I stop running. Still only occasional steps. Pain is bad now. My knee begins to buckle when it happens and a pea sized lump has formed at the bottom edge of my knee cap.

Nov 10. Decide running is a bad idea. Hit gym. Elyptical is okay, but knee stays tweaked. Dec. 30, sucomb to dreaded 8 week slothfest. See yet another doctor. X-Ray is OK. Says take Aleive 1000MG/day.

Today, even walking 2 miles tweaks it bad. My first few steps upstairs after I stop buckle my knee. Pain will be hit or miss for several days, then will get better if I don't workout. Rinse, repeat.

I fear that I've torn something that can't heal on its own, but I am not sure and doctors never do much. I will have no insurance in 3 months--screw IT, I'm going back to school. Anyone here have any ideas.

What you describe...this is either chondromalacia patella or patellofemoral syndrome. Now without being able to examine you or see your radiographs, this is not 100%. But from what you describe, this is what I am thinking. The primary treatment of which is quadriceps strengthening. Now, you can start these at home, doing terminal straight leg raises. Focus on only the last 15-20 degrees or so. I always laugh at the guys at the gym who bend their knees all the way back to "strengthen their quads", Start with something light, like a book, and place them on your feet with them mostly extended. Then extend to 0 degrees and repeat. 15-20 reps at least twice, if not three times per day. This will take some time. Good Luck. If this doesn't help, please see a sports medicine specialist.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Confirmed Patella-femoral Syndrome

With my thyroid crap all out of whack last year, I didn't really deal with my knees. During that time, things changed from, "Nothing looks out of the ordinary," to both my knees being visibly out of alignment and my right knee is always swollen and getting more so everyday. My knees also, apparently, bend too far backwards. :confused:

Doctor was not very chatty so I didn't get to ask any questions.

Info: I am knock-kneed (Since infancy because I was club footed and I still have an instep. I've never had great posture.). I also pronate somewhat, but not excessively. I've had small amounts of patella-femoral type pain since I was a teenager. It only started to get bad when I was 35.

I am starting PT next week and the first thing we'll try is taping and maybe a brace. I still wonder how much I'll be able to do?

What are the chances of a person with this condition to be able to jog again? Cycling even messes me up and hiking any kind of elevation is out of the question. Even walking on crowned pavement tweaks it. Will I always be limited in these activities?

Is the cause always muscle imbalance?
 

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Ice Ice Baby.............If my knees are hurting I throw a small bag of frozen peas on them for 20-30 minutes before I get out of bed in the morning or before I go seepy night night. It's nice to ice them while under the covers cause it's just too cold sitting around with ice on them during the winter.

I use a chopat knee strap if my knee is hurting right below the knee cap, helps my right one but doesn't work on my left one.

No matter what make sure you ice them down. If you can keep the swelling down, you'll minimize the pain and limit the damage hopefully. good luck

twinkles
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Do you have Patellafemoral Syndrome?

twinkles said:
Ice Ice Baby.............If my knees are hurting I throw a small bag of frozen peas on them for 20-30 minutes before I get out of bed in the morning or before I go seepy night night. It's nice to ice them while under the covers cause it's just too cold sitting around with ice on them during the winter.

I use a chopat knee strap if my knee is hurting right below the knee cap, helps my right one but doesn't work on my left one.

No matter what make sure you ice them down. If you can keep the swelling down, you'll minimize the pain and limit the damage hopefully. good luck

twinkles
Are you talking about knee injuries in general or PFS specifically?
 

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would agree with Physasst, sounds like chondromalacia/patellafemoral pain syndrome based on your constellation of symptoms. This is not uncommon in females, especially athletes, and can definitly be exacerbated by excessive knee valgus (knock knees) and muscle imbalance. You are doing the correct thing by going to PT. Glad they are considering taping protocols and stretching. Would also consider closed kinetic chain strengthening protocols rather than open chain. Tends to create better balance in muscle strengthening. Would definitly avoid heels over 1 inch as well. Most outcomes suggest improvement with appropriate PT coupled with antiinflammatorys (dont scream!!) and strict activity limitation until pain is resolved.

Good luck!
 

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knee problems in general, sorry I ment to post responding to your origional post but ended up in the wrong place. In my situation, my knee doesn't have to look swollen in order for ice to help. good luck

twinkles
 

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I too developed similar symptoms, probably more so, in my left knee back in Dec. 2007...X-ray indicated water-on-the-knee and slight arthritis (I'm 67yo) and an MRI confirmed some torn cartilage..(it seems that my left knee is my 'favorite' point-of-contact for crashing...of which I've had some lulus over the years) I went to a Sports' Ortho Surgeon and he said that it didn't appear to be that severe; just go ahead and cycle to keep the muscles in tone, but take it slow for at least the first 5-10miles, and not to get too gungho during the first 10 rides. I've always been a 'listen to the body' person anyhow. As members can confirm, I'm a Vitamin/Mineral/Herb junkie, so in the past 4 weeks (with my Witch's concoctions), I've gotten rid of the water, swellings and can walk without limping or any pain. I'd recommend that you seek an SOS &/or Physiotherapist for a better analysis.
The weather here for the last 3.5 weeks has been in the high 20's, or snowy (last one = 9.5"), then 1" of sleet/ice....as soon as the roads are halfway clear and the temp gets above 35°, I'm going to ride. (Murphy's Law... I sold my Kreitler rollers in Dec. '07 with the intention of ordering the emotion rollers....which are still on a 3-4 week delivery....go figure)
 

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A lot of good advice and I have to add that most GP's are lousy when it comes to sports injuries. They don't call these injuries overuse injuries for nothing. I'm a longtime runner, lots of 5ks 10ks and 15 marathons, and once one of these patellar tendinitis, or kneecap problems, or any other overuse injury becomes entrenched, you have to back off in a major way. It took a while to get that bad, it will take a while to heal if it ever does. As noted, the leg extensions are very important for this type of injury. Especially the point where the leg is fully extended. You should do these in a very controlled manner, pausing and contracting the quadricep at full extension.. Many times it's caused by a muscle imbalance in the quadricep with the medial side being weaker The kneecap doesn't track properly...

I had the tiny tender spot right below my kneecap, and the leg buckling thing too. I've just been cycling over the last year and the knee is much better. I ran two miles on a treadmill the other day so my quads are killing me, but if the knee pain comes back, I won't push it...
 
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