[velomonkey]

So is it just me or did USa Cycling make two huge mistakes

1. Renaming themselves USA cycling form the ever-cool USCF which had the best logo, EVER!

2. Moving the championships from Philly to Greenville S.C.

In my mind the domestic bike racing scene needs some history and the Philly race would have been 25 years next year. Also, not sure how many people have been to Philly, but it drew in the entire city with the local ABC stations carrying live feeds, a huge police escort and a party scene at Manayunk that was at least something like Belgium. Spectators drive from DC, NYC, Boston and various other points. you could see the race at the start finish with the picturesque and international Ben Franklin Drive or Lemmon Hill or Manayunk and each area would be packed with people. Manayunk at 17% gave the race drama and the start finish was a great wide open drag race.

Contrast this with - Greenville S.C. A location that is central to only Greenville S.C. The spectators number somewhere about the same as a local race. There is hardly any drama, certainly no history and the past two years gave us winners like Hincapie and Levi. And then produced the silliest looking champ jersey EVER (i.e., Levi's jersey this year).

Sure Philly ended all too often in a sprint and the inclusion of foreigners meant we lost but still got the jersey (the year Fast Freddy got third but won the jersey comes to mind). Nevertheless, Lance's triple crown, Fast Freddy going on the outside of the traffic circle and then winning - the inevitable break getting caught on Manayunk and then the attacks. Man, that was a cool race.

Philly had it all and while wasn't ideal at least, in my mind, it was way better then Greenville for a myriad of reasons.

What do you all think?

 

[wgp]

AMEN to that, velomonkey!

Bring back Philly as the US Pro Championship!

What's the story behind it's departure from Philly?

 

[davidka]

Part of it was that Philly had becomse a sprinter's race, the hill isn't hard enough anymore. Another part of it is that they wanted to have a US championship race with only US riders, no foreigners. Philly has grown into too large an international event to accomodate that change. That reason alone is a feather in the cap. An international race in the US that's too big to change? Hell yeah!!

I think the move to Greenville was good but it shouldn't just stay there. The course should change, shouldn't it? Maybe every few years?

 

[thebadger]

Let the race move around.

 

[velomonkey]

Really though, Greenville? Did you see the coverage, the start finish had less than 100 people there. It was pathetic. I don't know about the hill in Philly not being hard enough, just cause something is that way for five years doesn't mean it's that way going forward. Marty J's win in, what ,1999 was a breakaway. Freddy's win in was a breakaway. It's just the last five years or so it came down to a pack finish.

Has anyone been to the Philly race? Even now it's a great event, but it was so much more when there was so much on the line.

 

[KBIKES]

I was there both years and have no idea what race you saw on TV but it wasn't the one in Greenville. I lived and spent many years in the Phlly area. Greenville had crowds and is a much nicer area to visit. Give me Greenville any day!

 

[Creakyknees]

Philly's a great race, granted and I'd love to see it become a huge old US tradition.

But don't award a jersey, save that for another day and course, on the weekend preceding the TdF like all the Euro's do. And the course should move around. Lord knows we have plenty of places for awesome road courses.

 

[velomonkey]

So I saw it on this TV station called Versus - it used to be called outdoor life network. Not sure if you know it, but they actually show bike races. I am thinking of George Hincapie going up to the VIP tent at the start finish and hugging his dad and NO ONE WAS THERE. I am then thinking of Hincapie, Levi and the other dude Bajhajl or whatever, doing the climb and NO ONE WAS THERE. Then they go through the park and George attacks and NO ONE WAS THERE.

As for you living in Philly and being an expert on it, perhaps then you know Liege and Roubaix are more alike Philly than, say, Greenville S.C. I mean come on, Greenville is two hours to Atlanta and nothing else - whereas Philly is two hours to NYC and three to DC with Baltimore, all of Jersey and Dover in there, too.

Sorry, but Greenville doesn't hold a candle.

 

[bas]

So I saw it on this TV station called Versus - it used to be called outdoor life network. Not sure if you know it, but they actually show bike races. I am
Sorry, but Greenville doesn't hold a candle.

Hincapie owns and lives in Greenville, SC.

 

[jmrachek]

You have no idea what you are talking about. I was there with about 85,000 other people at the race in Greenville last year Dude, it's a 24+ mile course do you expect to see giant crowds of people on the entire length of the course? I've been to Philly many times and the only thing it has going for it is Cheese steaks and the fact that it's only 2 hrs from D.C. and NYC. The place is a total hole, you can have it.

 

[bigpinkt]

You have no idea what you are talking about. I was there with about 85,000 other people at the race in Greenville last year Dude, it's a 24+ mile course do you expect to see giant crowds of people on the entire length of the course? I've been to Philly many times and the only thing it has going for it is Cheese steaks and the fact that it's only 2 hrs from D.C. and NYC. The place is a total hole, you can have it.

But have you been to Philly during USPRO? 500,000 people going nuts on a sunny day. It is a great time.

 

[velomonkey]

I'll take Philly any day over Greenville

You have no idea what you are talking about. I was there with about 85,000 other people at the race in Greenville last year Dude, it's a 24+ mile course do you expect to see giant crowds of people on the entire length of the course? I've been to Philly many times and the only thing it has going for it is Cheese steaks and the fact that it's only 2 hrs from D.C. and NYC. The place is a total hole, you can have it.

85,000! For the championships! Come on, man. The CSC crit in Arlington, VA draws in that many people. Athens twilight draws in that many. Are you seriously trying to tell the group that WALL at Philly which is four deep with people on both sides for the entire section, with helicopters lying overhead, is sub par to the climb in Greenville scattered with some people. Ben Franklin with stadium seating packed to capacity on either side with flags of nation draping off the avenue is sub par to - Greenville. Come on, man.

The point is, a race in a city (and Greenville is not a real city) draws way, way more spectators. The SF race comes to mind. All the euro races go through what? Cities. Cities that are old and have some history and panache. Sure Philly is lacking, but for a bike race it will hands down beat Greenville every time.

Even velonews said the Philly race without the jersey is the biggest one day race. But no, to you Grenville is a step up. Get real.

Here is photo with just a sample showing the crowds on Manayunk and this was early in the race - it gets far more crowded around noon.

I guess my eyes lie.

 

[Bry03cobra]

You have no idea what you are talking about. I was there with about 85,000 other people at the race in Greenville last year Dude, it's a 24+ mile course do you expect to see giant crowds of people on the entire length of the course? I've been to Philly many times and the only thing it has going for it is Cheese steaks and the fact that it's only 2 hrs from D.C. and NYC. The place is a total hole, you can have it.

You attack a city you know nothing about. Looks like your profile says you started riding in 2004, did you attend the philly race in 04-05?? Its a great race. I just got home from a pre-race ride of the corse. Going to watch to rest of the race on TV. I have been considering a move south myself. Reasons?? Climate and cost of living. I love my city, sure there are problems, but show me a MAJOR city that doesn't have its fair share. There is great riding here. Nice flat rides down to the jersey shore, to nice hilly rides north of the city. Also beautiful rolling hill rides in the amish country west of the city. I would suggest you check out the good about philly before bashing it.

BTW most people from philly don't eat cheesesteaks, they are for the tourists.
Bryan

 

[Creakyknees]

Let's not get into city-bashing. I think that's not the point. The point is, should the championships be at Philly and only Philly?

I vote no. The usual in top-tier cycling is for championships to move around, and not be combined with other races. Philly is a great race and stands on its own; it doesn't need a stars and stripes jersey anymore.

But. I do agree that the champs should not be in Greenville SC or any other city year after year. Move 'em around get cities to bid for them.

Also keep in mind that the Euro pro championships are not the biggest races on anyone's calendar. Check the archives on cyclingnews, they are rarely given full coverage, even France/Italy might just get a paragraph and top-ten listing.

.

 

[bigpinkt]

Also keep in mind that the Euro pro championships are not the biggest races on anyone's calendar. Check the archives on cyclingnews, they are rarely given full coverage, even France/Italy might just get a paragraph and top-ten listing.

.

The National Championships for France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, and Spain are big deals Live TV coverage etc. The reason cyclingnews does not have big write ups is that all the championships happen on the same day, the last Sunday before the start of the Tour. It would be a challenge for cyclingnews to provide full coverage for each as there are 15 on that day alone,

 

[thebadger]

The point is, a race in a city (and Greenville is not a real city) draws way, way more spectators. The SF race comes to mind. All the euro races go through what? Cities. Cities that are old and have some history and panache. Sure Philly is lacking, but for a bike race it will hands down beat Greenville every time.

All the Euro races go through cities, eh? Lets look at the major Euro National Championships last year.
France - Aurilliac out in the middle of nowhere
Belgium - Ronse thats a big city isn't it
Germany - Wiesbaden decent sized city and somewhat close to Frankfurt
Britain - Abergavenny a gigantic city of 14,000
Italy - Genova thats a good sized city
Spain - Cuenca a city with a bustling 47,000 people
Netherlands - Maastricht decent sized (100,00+) but nothing close Philly

If you want to be so much like the euro races then you will have the courses move around just like they do.

You want an old US city with history. Hmmm. Okay lets move it to Charleston, SC. Or maybe St Augustine FL. They probably are not real cities either, right?

 

[peter1]

As an ex-Philly resident, I can say the problem is as someone earlier noted: The course is too easy, unless you want your national champion to be a sprinter. I've ridden just about every rideable road around the city and there aren't big enough hills (unless you want to make a 2 mile crit up and down the Manayunk wall). Now, I have no problem with a mobile national championships -- one year a sprinter's course, another a rouleur's etc. -- but to keep it in Greenville is a bit short sighted. No knock on Greenville, but moving it around would generate excitement in other areas of the country.

 

[bigpinkt]

I am under the impression that it will move around, this is Greenville last year correct?

 

[magnolialover]

Yes...

I am under the impression that it will move around, this is Greenville last year correct?

Yes, I think that it is.

That being said, even though Philly is a big huge event, the Greenville course is harder, and makes for more intense racing. And yes, there were tons of people there last year, and the year before.

Philly is a great race, the course in Greenville is better though.

 

[upstateSC-rider]

Philly had it all and while wasn't ideal at least, in my mind, it was way better then Greenville for a myriad of reasons.

What do you all think?

I think if the race was that great it'd still be in Philly, correct?
Lou.