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Have good, get give
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So here's the deal in Dallas there is a lake that people use for recreation. It's safe and often crowded. There is a fast trail and a slow trail, but for a brief section ~1.5 miles of it the two merge. However, the trail is large enough that 2 cars could drive on it easily. It is broken up into 4 lanes going two directions and of two speeds.

Well, I hit the very first part of this trail and spot a 4yo on training wheels in my lane. I was right at 20mph and bleed off speed and simultaneously say in a loud voice "heads up!" and I get to the slow lane.

The dad is running and is too far behind to grab him, but he swerves to the correct lane. Too fast. He hits his 6yo+ sibling's wheel causing him to go down and then cuts it back to oncoming traffic. Hard. Now I have a heat seeking missle bearing down on me and he isn't going to stop till we meet head on. I unclip my shoes and dive off the bike to the right and try to take it with me. No luck. I get clear but my handlebars conk him right square in his temple. Luckily the dad was responsible enough to have him wear a helmet so all was good.

Somehow in the aftermath I must have either kicked or damaged my rear deraileur as it will not shift anymore. That and my speedplay cleats filled with mud so I was a goner and just called the mrs. to come get me after pedaling with my heels 4 miles to a midpoint between us.

Oh well. Just a stupid derailuer fix ($15) and all will be good.
 

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... oh for the safety of the open road, where all you have to contend with are 18 wheelers, SUVs towing boats with mega wide rear view mirrors and unattentive cell phone using bubble head drivers...
 

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20 mph?

culdeus said:
So here's the deal in Dallas there is a lake that people use for recreation. It's safe and often crowded. There is a fast trail and a slow trail, but for a brief section ~1.5 miles of it the two merge. However, the trail is large enough that 2 cars could drive on it easily. It is broken up into 4 lanes going two directions and of two speeds.

Well, I hit the very first part of this trail and spot a 4yo on training wheels in my lane. I was right at 20mph and bleed off speed and simultaneously say in a loud voice "heads up!" and I get to the slow lane.

The dad is running and is too far behind to grab him, but he swerves to the correct lane. Too fast. He hits his 6yo+ sibling's wheel causing him to go down and then cuts it back to oncoming traffic. Hard. Now I have a heat seeking missle bearing down on me and he isn't going to stop till we meet head on. I unclip my shoes and dive off the bike to the right and try to take it with me. No luck. I get clear but my handlebars conk him right square in his temple. Luckily the dad was responsible enough to have him wear a helmet so all was good.

Somehow in the aftermath I must have either kicked or damaged my rear deraileur as it will not shift anymore. That and my speedplay cleats filled with mud so I was a goner and just called the mrs. to come get me after pedaling with my heels 4 miles to a midpoint between us.

Oh well. Just a stupid derailuer fix ($15) and all will be good.
20 MPH. Don't you think that's a little fast for a self professed crowded trail? Or road? Or whatever it was you were on?
 

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Have good, get give
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
maybe

It's a MUT with plenty of room for everyone and is clearly painted who belongs in what lane. I didn't hit the kid going 20 I had bled off a bunch of speed by the time we connected, but I had started to wind up again when he made the cut back across what was 2 full lanes at that point.
 

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Bacon!
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Tahoe MUT

Had a similar situation happen riding the MUT at Tahoe last summer. Little kid was stopped off the trail on the right and right as I got up to him he decided to cross over to the left side. I had run my bike into the mud to miss him. Ended up sliding into the muck and getting pretty dirty. I was only going around 10mph at most and thought it would be best to take a chance on wrecking me and the bike rather than the little tyke on the bike.
 

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Call me a Fred
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The cause of your accident is one of the reasons I limit my time on MUTs. There is too much erratic behaviour on them. Children, dogs, skaters, parents, strollers, bikes, homeless etc. It's just a bad mix. The behaviour of motorists is much more predicatble and makes for safer travel.
 

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Downhill Juggernaut
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Was this White Rock Lake? If so I can see how it happened. Parts of the trail are great for zipping along, then suddenly you're surrounded by urbanites walking in front of you at every opportunity. I haven't been over there in several years, but I enjoyed the few times I went there (mainly during the week). If it was White Rock, out of curiosity... was it on the West side of the lake towards Tee Pee Hill (North of the Spillway)? That seems to be the area that always bottlenecked on me.
 

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my ignorant opinion- your fault

Let me see if I got this right... there was this FOUR year old on training wheels...

... and he FREAKED OUT when somebody shouted something LOUD and he COULDN'T POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND at him, with a closing speed of over 20 mph. This caused him to get OUT OF CONTROL? A FOUR YEAR OLD out of control? Who could have predicted THIS freak chain of events?

Well, you could have.

The kid's dad could have, but you are the one with the pranged-up bike.

Story time...

I'm on the bike path, heading for the open road. I come up on this guy with a fixie- mountain bike. So naturally I say "hey, sweet ride! You out to train, or commute?" "Just commute" he says, "Then I get on my road bike and head out from home..." so we are having this nice chat. BIG guy, I'm thinking I'd love to draft behind him, cause he looks FAST..

Out of nowhere, this guy appears on his AEROBARS, trying to pass some some old ladies... he's flying in the WRONG LANE, forcing 2 kids and a mom with a Burley off the path. The big guy just grabs bars and looks mean. OK, I brace for impact, too. The guy on the aerobars (still coming at us in the wrong lane) sees we are not gonna chicken- grabs for brakes, swerves, and I heard him go off the path behind us... he's got his speed down to less than 10.

So my MTB companion says "Frickin' @hole..." and I say "Makes me embarrased to be a road biker, sometimes..." and he says "Why? That was a triathlete... but I hear what you are saying."

We agreed that we hoped the triathlete was ok. We also agreed that we hoped he needed to retrue some wheels, and that he probably thought it was all OUR fault.

Bike Path- not Velodrome

Glad everyone is ok... now- where do people bike in your area when they are seriously fast? SERIOUSLY?

'meat
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
dogmeat said:
Let me see if I got this right... there was this FOUR year old on training wheels...

... and he FREAKED OUT when somebody shouted something LOUD and he COULDN'T POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND at him, with a closing speed of over 20 mph. This caused him to get OUT OF CONTROL? A FOUR YEAR OLD out of control? Who could have predicted THIS freak chain of events?

Well, you could have.

The kid's dad could have, but you are the one with the pranged-up bike.

Bike Path- not Velodrome

Glad everyone is ok... now- where do people bike in your area when they are seriously fast? SERIOUSLY?

'meat
Yeah, you have a point. I spotted him from a good distance and was able to shut down the speed pretty quickly. 20 is pretty normal for this lake, and later in the season on the weekends I join up with group rides from lbs groups. I'm not quite ready for primetime leg-wise yet. On summer mornings with little to no traffic frequently pacelines will cruise in excess of 30mph. Like I said 85% plus of this trail is split between fast and slow traffic with 0 chance of mixing. I've learned my lesson more or less.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Chris H said:
Was this White Rock Lake? If so I can see how it happened. Parts of the trail are great for zipping along, then suddenly you're surrounded by urbanites walking in front of you at every opportunity. I haven't been over there in several years, but I enjoyed the few times I went there (mainly during the week). If it was White Rock, out of curiosity... was it on the West side of the lake towards Tee Pee Hill (North of the Spillway)? That seems to be the area that always bottlenecked on me.
Yes, that's where it happened. There is not an escape hatch built in there.
 

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Downhill Juggernaut
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dogmeat said:
Glad everyone is ok... now- where do people bike in your area when they are seriously fast? SERIOUSLY?

'meat
Sad to say, but the area he was in is where everyone goes when they are seriously fast. It's a nice area and the path is as wide as a residential street in some parts. I haven't been there in years because... well, I don't live in Dallas. Although now that I'm into Road bikes, I wouldn't mind riding the lake just to see how it handles. The last time I rode there I was seriously out of shape huffing along on a mountain bike.
 

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Seriously?

[Let me see of I getthis right? The rules on a bike path are meant to be obyed. If you have a four year old that cannot and is too youg to know what to do he should not be out of reach of an adult. If I have a child amd I hear some one do the correct thing, and alert me he is coming I make sure my 4 year old is safe AND in the correct side. To let a child be on the wrong side and out of reach with many people is very irresponsible of the parent. whether in th road or a trail rules need to be followed. If you are not old enough to know these rules and verbal signals that accompany them you should not be on the path or road. For my self I do not like these rules to be broken. We have one where I live called the American River Bike Trail. The speed is clearly posted and there are all of the dangers previously posted. I do not like to go that slow so I choose not to ride the trail. However there are many cyclist who speed along at clips of 25-30 MPH and act like and assess who own the road. What a bad name given to all of us. But even at ten miles and hour a child could still cause a bad accident by being on the wrong side of the path. Speed is not the issue in the previous case( well maybe a little but not excessive) the issue is not having a four year old loose on a trail with many people and moving objects. Just my opinion.
 

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jnwarner0 said:
[Let me see of I getthis right? The rules on a bike path are meant to be obyed. If you have a four year old that cannot and is too youg to know what to do he should not be out of reach of an adult. If I have a child amd I hear some one do the correct thing, and alert me he is coming I make sure my 4 year old is safe AND in the correct side. To let a child be on the wrong side and out of reach with many people is very irresponsible of the parent. whether in th road or a trail rules need to be followed. If you are not old enough to know these rules and verbal signals that accompany them you should not be on the path or road. For my self I do not like these rules to be broken. We have one where I live called the American River Bike Trail. The speed is clearly posted and there are all of the dangers previously posted. I do not like to go that slow so I choose not to ride the trail. However there are many cyclist who speed along at clips of 25-30 MPH and act like and assess who own the road. What a bad name given to all of us. But even at ten miles and hour a child could still cause a bad accident by being on the wrong side of the path. Speed is not the issue in the previous case( well maybe a little but not excessive) the issue is not having a four year old loose on a trail with many people and moving objects. Just my opinion.
I agree...totally the dad's fault.
 

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Nicest part of your story...

The nicest part of your story was when you and the rider on the MTB went back to check on your fellow cyclist who had ridden off the road.
 

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As the parent of a 4 and 6 year old, gotta agree that the father should have been closer and more in control of the situation. When you have your children out in a situation where they could get hurt, you need to take responsibility for their actions. Four year olds do stupid things all the time and protecting them from themselves is part of the deal. Nonetheless, accidents happen and it is good noone was seriously hurt.
 

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like skiing

I don' t know about this one. I do alot of skiing in NJ, and we are short on expert trails. for that reason I find myself quite often on the Blue and Green trails. these trails are dense packed with beginner skiers, and even worse, first time snowboarders. I take full responsibility always for not getting hit by these out of control beginners. always looking up hill, always passing with lots of room to spare. My point is, why would you expect a six year old "beginner" with training wheels to do anything predictable? and you must not have kids if you expect a young child to accurately understand the intended meaning of "heads up", yelled from behind from some random guy doing 20mph. sorry, but I believe it is your fault this time. if you have trouble with avoiding traffic, get off the beginner trails.



pagstx said:
As the parent of a 4 and 6 year old, gotta agree that the father should have been closer and more in control of the situation. When you have your children out in a situation where they could get hurt, you need to take responsibility for their actions. Four year olds do stupid things all the time and protecting them from themselves is part of the deal. Nonetheless, accidents happen and it is good noone was seriously hurt.
 

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I'm not "nice"- get over it.

rodetoruin said:
The nicest part of your story was when you and the rider on the MTB went back to check on your fellow cyclist who had ridden off the road.
If I went back, that would increase the chance of a physical altercation. As I said, it was not my aim to stomp the guy- just let him know firmly that there are natural consequences to traveling out of control and at excessive speeds on a commuter bike path. Going back to call him a jerk would not help the situation.

I ride with guys like you... guys like Brad who get ridden off the road, chase the car down, and kick out their headlights screaming "There! There! If I'd been a car, you'd have more damage than that!" Guys like Tom- ridden off the road, chases down the car, and smashes the lady's windshield out with his bare fist... (awesome... EVERYONE was impressed (esp. Tom), but it was wrong.) Guys like Kim who has kryptonited 2 car hoods for getting bumped over in city traffic. Guys like John who have been hospitalized 4 times because they were hit by cars... all over 30mph, once at 65... getting blood all over their cars...

No, I'm not going back to check on the guy. I'm sure the family he rode off the path had first dibs on him.

'meat
 

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Yelling heads up to a 4 year-old. That's rich.

Wise up dude. Bike paths are like life...it's not always about you.
 

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Have good, get give
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
rule said:
Yelling heads up to a 4 year-old. That's rich.

Wise up dude. Bike paths are like life...it's not always about you.
What would you have done then exactly? I slowed down, got as far away as possible from the kid and made a rather acrobatic move to not have my whole body weight + bike hit him. I couldn't tell the parent was out of range until it was too late. The focus was on the kid the whole time.

Did you miss the part about how this path could have two cars pass on it with ease?
 

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bauerb said:
I don' t know about this one. I do alot of skiing in NJ, and we are short on expert trails. for that reason I find myself quite often on the Blue and Green trails. these trails are dense packed with beginner skiers, and even worse, first time snowboarders. I take full responsibility always for not getting hit by these out of control beginners. always looking up hill, always passing with lots of room to spare. My point is, why would you expect a six year old "beginner" with training wheels to do anything predictable? and you must not have kids if you expect a young child to accurately understand the intended meaning of "heads up", yelled from behind from some random guy doing 20mph. sorry, but I believe it is your fault this time. if you have trouble with avoiding traffic, get off the beginner trails.
i gotta agree.

i used to ride on a public beach bike trail and had all sorts of things happen. People WALKING in the clearly marked bitumen bike trail when not two metres away is a nice smooth concrete walking path ... lil' kids all over the bike lane, even people pushing prams... but whenever that happened i slowed RIGHT down... i mean.. comon, it's a kid... i pass them barely moving at all, even when they are behaving... i'm only 23 and don't have kids, but i know that much !

so, that is the reason i dont ride on these trails anymore... if you want to be riding fast and on more predictable conditions with fully legally responsible ADULTS, then ride on the road.

i hate the public. :eek:
 
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