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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First off I am not a weight-weenie. I have 4 steel bikes that I ride regularly. I picked Up a Lynskey R240 frames on a whim. I always wanted a Ti bike and I got a great deal. I weighed the frame this weekend and was surprised that it weighed the same as many high-end steel bikes. In my case it was 1768 grams (3 lbs, 14 Oz) in a size XL. For comparison my fillet brazed 1996 Coppi Genius frame weighs only 4 ounces more in a size 59c-c. Perhaps all the shaped tubes and fat, tapered head tube add some weight, but I was still surprised that the difference was so small.
 

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The shaped tubes are supposed to add stiffness in specific ways without adding weight (vs same diameter tubing). They likely err on the side of durability and sacrifice some weight so they don't have to worry about warranty repairs as much. Hopefully you like the way it rides and you won't have to think about the weight of the frame.

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What did you expect from a Ti frame what was built with American labor and still manages to be pretty cheap? The price reduction as compared to, say, a Seven
has to come from somewhere and a goo chunk of that is raw material cost (tubes).

Steel and Ti bikes get lighter from thinning the walls and butting. Making thin walled tubes and butting cost money.
 

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What did you expect from a Ti frame what was built with American labor and still manages to be pretty cheap? The price reduction as compared to, say, a Seven
has to come from somewhere and a goo chunk of that is raw material cost (tubes).

Steel and Ti bikes get lighter from thinning the walls and butting. Making thin walled tubes and butting cost money.
The Seven Axiom SLX is probably the gold standard in terms of a light quality frame. That said, this may not be the right frame for everyone. I'm thinking heavier riders.
 

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In almost offensively (to a metallurgist) simple terms, titanium is not as "strong" as steel. So if you duplicate a steel item in titanium, you need "more" titanium to make it as strong as the steel item.

The corollary is that of two identical items, the lighter titanium item will be "weaker" than the heavier steel item. This is why you see weight limits on pedals with titanium axles in lieu of otherwise identical steel ones.
 

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Besides butting, tube diameter can also reduce weight (generally coincides with wall thickness). My Ti Ericksen is as light as my Parlee Z5 at 15 lbs, and is a bit stiffer. The chainstays and top & down tube are oversized.
 

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Besides butting, tube diameter can also reduce weight (generally coincides with wall thickness). My Ti Ericksen is as light as my Parlee Z5 at 15 lbs, and is a bit stiffer. The chainstays and top & down tube are oversized.
Sorry for the total threadjack here......but aside from weight what do you think of those two bikes as compared to each other?

I'm considering replacing my carbon bike which is in the ballpark of a Z5 with a Ti bike probably in the league with Ericksen but still on the fence about it so I'm curious what you think those two side by side.
 

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My Eddy Merckx 01 Corsa with Deda zero uno tubing is almost as light as my titanium Litespeed Ultimate. Titanium bike frames will never be as light as carbon bike frames. There were a few years when they were really popular because they were a bit lighter than steel and everyone wanted something that weighed less. Then came the disposable aluminum frames, followed by carbon fiber. I can remember when gee whiz light was anything under 20 lbs. The difference in a heavy frame and a light frame is maybe 1.5-2 lbs. And that's a couple of water bottles or a good bowel movement. The big improvements in less weight are in wheels and components. Enjoy the new bike.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
What did you expect from a Ti frame what was built with American labor and still manages to be pretty cheap? The price reduction as compared to, say, a Seven
has to come from somewhere and a goo chunk of that is raw material cost (tubes).

Steel and Ti bikes get lighter from thinning the walls and butting. Making thin walled tubes and butting cost money.
I am not sure comparing frame costs of a custom Ti house (with a bit of status symbol vibe) to a straight production house is a totally fair comparison. I am not sure the issue here is that steel bikes have become weight competitive with Ti or is it that I have a slightly porky Ti build
 

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My non weight weenie r240 build comes in at 17lbs flat, co plete with pedals, 2 cages, garmin + sensor, and heavy esi silicon bar tape. My carbon bike weighs 1lb less, but it doesn't matter. I love the way the r240 rides. I'm sure you will enjoy yours too!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
My non weight weenie r240 build comes in at 17lbs flat, co plete with pedals, 2 cages, garmin + sensor, and heavy esi silicon bar tape. My carbon bike weighs 1lb less, but it doesn't matter. I love the way the r240 rides. I'm sure you will enjoy yours too!
I am looking forward to building it up, which I plan to do myself. I value comfort and durability over weight, so if I comes in around 18-18.5lb that is fine by me. I have a lighter soulless plastic bike and its the least ridden of my stable
 

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My non weight weenie r240 build comes in at 17lbs flat, co plete with pedals, 2 cages, garmin + sensor, and heavy esi silicon bar tape. My carbon bike weighs 1lb less, but it doesn't matter. I love the way the r240 rides. I'm sure you will enjoy yours too!
I am looking forward to building it up, which I plan to do myself. I value comfort and durability over weight, so if I comes in around 18-18.5lb that is fine by me. I have a lighter soulless plastic bike and its the least ridden of my stable
Heh...my non weight-weenie Seven Axiom Race with full-coverage front/rear Velo Orange metal fenders, ready to ride with light mounts/mirror comes in at 8.5kg (18.9lbs). Plenty light, especially for a fun/fast/bike.

https://imgur.com/a/fRBor

Don't miss my past carbon bikes at all. More to life than sheer frame weight. If it is under 20lbs, it is good enough for schlepping up 12+ flights of stairs.
 

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My lynskey comes in at 18.5lbs with mid range 105 components. It's not light by todays standards, but more than adequate keep up with todays bikes. If your talking about pure material comparisons, carbon is the superior material in weight and stiffness. However, to me, that's not why people buy titanium. For me, there is an appreciation for the craftsmanship and difficulty it is to work with titanium. Not to mention the quality of the raw titanium finish and the durability of the material itself. It may be just perception, but to me my titanium bike feels more lively than my carbon bike. Might just be in my head, but it gives me a smile when I ride the bike and that's all that matters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
My lynskey comes in at 18.5lbs with mid range 105 components. It's not light by todays standards, but more than adequate keep up with todays bikes. If your talking about pure material comparisons, carbon is the superior material in weight and stiffness. However, to me, that's not why people buy titanium. For me, there is an appreciation for the craftsmanship and difficulty it is to work with titanium. Not to mention the quality of the raw titanium finish and the durability of the material itself. It may be just perception, but to me my titanium bike feels more lively than my carbon bike. Might just be in my head, but it gives me a smile when I ride the bike and that's all that matters.
I did not buy it expecting it to be super light. I was, however, a bit surprised that it was not much lighter than my steel bikes. I have never had a Ti bike and this looked like a great deal. I've had carbon, steel and Al bikes so this seemed like something I should try. I just ordered a Campy Potenza group so I can start the build process. I hope am smiling when I ride it too
 

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Sorry for the total threadjack here......but aside from weight what do you think of those two bikes as compared to each other?

I'm considering replacing my carbon bike which is in the ballpark of a Z5 with a Ti bike probably in the league with Ericksen but still on the fence about it so I'm curious what you think those two side by side.
I could flip a coin and be happy with either one. The Ti bike is a tiny bit stiffer but really negligible.

I like bikes that are stiff enough where I can jump out of saddle to accelerate on hills and feels like instant power and no brake rub. But the frames need some compliance to smooth out the rough NJ roads. I weigh about 170-175 at 5'11", so I'm built more like a classics rider.

Not my bikes are similarly spec'd with Campy Super Record/Record and same Shamal wheels and rubber.

I've owned a lot of Ti bikes (Seven, original Litespeed and Merlin, Serotta, Moots (not RSL though) and Spectrum). The Ericksen is custom but Kent hit all the right notes for me on this frame.

I would suggest getting a custom frame to get what you want. Another great Ti builder is Jim Kish. He built me a terrific cross/tourer that costs less (even painted) than a stock Moots. Great workmanship and easy to work with.
 

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My lynskey comes in at 18.5lbs with mid range 105 components. It's not light by todays standards, but more than adequate keep up with todays bikes. If your talking about pure material comparisons, carbon is the superior material in weight and stiffness. However, to me, that's not why people buy titanium. For me, there is an appreciation for the craftsmanship and difficulty it is to work with titanium. Not to mention the quality of the raw titanium finish and the durability of the material itself. It may be just perception, but to me my titanium bike feels more lively than my carbon bike. Might just be in my head, but it gives me a smile when I ride the bike and that's all that matters.
my new R150 is at 21 lbs, with ultegra, Fulcrum wheels (but stout tires) alloy fsa/deda/thomson cockpit. only a pound lighter than my 1990 italian steel/Campy/36-laced-tub racing bike. Though I also have the S&S couplers which likely adds a few hundred grams(?).

Nevertheless I can climb faster on this Lynskey than my former bike - a 18 lb 08 Sworks Tarmac - due to the Ti bike being overall stiffer suited to my weight.
 

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I could flip a coin and be happy with either one. The Ti bike is a tiny bit stiffer but really negligible.

I like bikes that are stiff enough where I can jump out of saddle to accelerate on hills and feels like instant power and no brake rub. But the frames need some compliance to smooth out the rough NJ roads. I weigh about 170-175 at 5'11", so I'm built more like a classics rider.

Not my bikes are similarly spec'd with Campy Super Record/Record and same Shamal wheels and rubber.

I've owned a lot of Ti bikes (Seven, original Litespeed and Merlin, Serotta, Moots (not RSL though) and Spectrum). The Ericksen is custom but Kent hit all the right notes for me on this frame.

I would suggest getting a custom frame to get what you want. Another great Ti builder is Jim Kish. He built me a terrific cross/tourer that costs less (even painted) than a stock Moots. Great workmanship and easy to work with.
Thanks a lot, Veloduffer. I appreciate it.

That's the answer I was hoping to hear and it sounds like you and I want exactly the same thing out of a road frame performance wise so it's especially helpful coming from you.

I want Ti because I like the idea of no paint and not having to worry about crashes, scratches ect as much as with carbon but at the same time don't want to take a step backwards in performance. Plus, although I don't 'need' custom geometry why to heck not and I can afford it in Ti but quality carbon custom geo is a bit to pricey for me.

I'm familiar with Erickson and Kish but hadn't really looked at them. I will. As of now I'm leaning strongly towards Seven with Indy Fab also under consideration. All else equal, I want to keep it local and New England is a good area to be in for that.
 
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