Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am ready to buy a new bike.
I have been on my GIANT Escape R3 '08 for three years,(500mm)
I am 5'10", inseam 32".
I think I need a 58cm-60cm frame.

I would like to know more about Bike Geometry. I like long rides through the country:cool: , hill climbs and distance. I did my first race last month and my next one is in August. On the Giant I find my self sitting up and trying to sit back a bit farther (no hands), or resting my forearms on the handlebar (straights). I have the seat just over the max line.

I am in Japan and have started looking at these bikes (all around $1000)
Cannondale CAAD 97
GT GTR Series 4 or 3
Felt F95 Team Issue

How do I compare the geometry between bikes? Is it just trying bikes and finding what works for me?

Thanks,
Michael
 

· Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I am researching as much as I can. I have a feeling that the best idea is to just try different bike frames and figure out what works. Unfortunately, in Japan, most of the bikes are smaller. They have bigger bikes, but not so much on hand at the bike shops.

It looks like the most important parts of geometry are the seat tube, and the top tube.
The seat tube length will determine the bike size. And the top tube will help determine my riding position?

My seat angle is 73.3. If I have a greater angle size I will be sitting more upright?

Thanks for any tips, discussion or pointing in the right directions,

Michael
 

· Cycling induced anoesis
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
Michael S. said:
I am ready to buy a new bike.
I have been on my GIANT Escape R3 '08 for three years,(500mm)
I am 5'10", inseam 32".
I think I need a 58cm-60cm frame.

I would like to know more about Bike Geometry. I like long rides through the country:cool: , hill climbs and distance. I did my first race last month and my next one is in August. On the Giant I find my self sitting up and trying to sit back a bit farther (no hands), or resting my forearms on the handlebar (straights). I have the seat just over the max line.

I am in Japan and have started looking at these bikes (all around $1000)
Cannondale CAAD 97
GT GTR Series 4 or 3
Felt F95 Team Issue

How do I compare the geometry between bikes? Is it just trying bikes and finding what works for me?

Thanks,
Michael
First thing to attend to is pinning down your sizing requirements, and that's best left the your LBS because there are no standards for measuring in the biking industry, so a 58cm CAAD9 might have comparable geo to a 56cm F95.

Once your sizing requirements are known, cycling experiences, intended uses, fitness/ flexibility (among other factors) come into play, because differences in a bikes geo tend to work better for certain types of uses and riders. Again, reputable LBS's are a good resource.

Learning about bike geometry is IMO a big plus, because it helps you understand more about sizing, fit, ride and handling, because all of those things are influenced by geo. But IME it is the test ride that best determines what's going to work best for you, and the better LBS's will recognize that fact and encourage you to get out on the road (for some duration) to help you determine your preferences and whittle the choices from there.

HTH...
 

· Cycling induced anoesis
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
Michael S. said:
I am researching as much as I can. I have a feeling that the best idea is to just try different bike frames and figure out what works. Unfortunately, in Japan, most of the bikes are smaller. They have bigger bikes, but not so much on hand at the bike shops.

It looks like the most important parts of geometry are the seat tube, and the top tube.
The seat tube length will determine the bike size. And the top tube will help determine my riding position?

My seat angle is 73.3. If I have a greater angle size I will be sitting more upright?

Thanks for any tips, discussion or pointing in the right directions,

Michael
Seat tube length doesn't necessarily dictate frame size, and angle doesn't make the rider sit more upright. Simply speaking, angle affects a riders KOPS position and reach. Slacken it and effective top tube has to increase to maintain reach, steepen it and TT length decreases to maintain the same reach. Corresponding changes to saddle fore/ aft have to be made to maintain KOPS position.

Of the facets of geometry you mentioned, top tube length is a primary consideration because it influences reach. Next, head tube length will affect drop to bars, with seat tube length primarily accommodating a riders saddle height. That's generally the order of priority, with the most difficult/ important aspects of fit taking precedence over the lesser, but other facets (f/r weight distribution and standover, for example) matter as well.

This outline is a very basic explanation, with more elements of geo playing an important role. So take what's written with that in mind.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks PJ352!
I am realizing how many different aspects can effect different things. But I like figuring it out. IMO, IMO, KOPS, and TT. Got it. Hopefully they use the same lingo in Japan! I am headed to the LBS tomorrow. I don't think they have any L size bikes in their shop. I think they are all M size. So I might have to order something without riding it.

My current geo is a 73.3 seat angle, and my TT is 565mm. So I should be able to look at my KOPS and see if I like it? My knees gets sore from riding with lots of hills, but it could be because I need to stretch more. I have never looked at my KOPS before.

So if I am flexible and comfortable, I want a longer TT to lengthen my reach? Currently I ride with my forearms on my straight handles and it feels pretty good. My head tube length is 170mm, but without drop bars I am not sure I can compare that to anything.

Currently I ride an hour after work 3-4 times a week, and 10-60k on the weekends. I want to work my way up to a century. In Portland, Or I used to ride 80miles with no hills. But I ride a lot of hills now, and I really enjoy it.

Thanks again for the tips. It is starting to make sense and come together.

Michael
 

· Cycling induced anoesis
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
Michael S. said:
Thanks PJ352!
I am realizing how many different aspects can effect different things. But I like figuring it out. IMO, IMO, KOPS, and TT. Got it. Hopefully they use the same lingo in Japan! I am headed to the LBS tomorrow. I don't think they have any L size bikes in their shop. I think they are all M size. So I might have to order something without riding it.

My current geo is a 73.3 seat angle, and my TT is 565mm. So I should be able to look at my KOPS and see if I like it? My knees gets sore from riding with lots of hills, but it could be because I need to stretch more. I have never looked at my KOPS before.

So if I am flexible and comfortable, I want a longer TT to lengthen my reach? Currently I ride with my forearms on my straight handles and it feels pretty good. My head tube length is 170mm, but without drop bars I am not sure I can compare that to anything.

Currently I ride an hour after work 3-4 times a week, and 10-60k on the weekends. I want to work my way up to a century. In Portland, Or I used to ride 80miles with no hills. But I ride a lot of hills now, and I really enjoy it.

Thanks again for the tips. It is starting to make sense and come together.

Michael
Regarding lingo, IMO = in my opinion, so nothing related to fit there. :)

Without knowing your specific fit requirements your current bike set up doesn't tell a lot, but your knees shouldn't hurt. There are a number of reasons why that may be, but (again) visiting a reputable LBS with a knowledgeable fitter would be the best approach to determining the cause.

Same goes for reach. While fitness/ flexibility have a bearing on an individuals reach and drop to bars, the LBS fitter is the best one to determine that - along with input from you.

Just an unsolicited opinion, but be careful riding with your forearms on the bars. You might want to look into aero bars on your new bike if you prefer that set up/ position.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Had a good time at the bike shop today. Although IMO didn't fly to well, everything else was English with a Japanese accent :) .
They can order FELT, GT, and GIANT from their shop. They have one GIANT in there shop that is a bit smaller then what I was looking for.

They wanted me on a M size bike because of my height, but I protested and they put me on a bike-like stand where they adjusted the seat tube, the seat post and the drop handle, which could go up and forward. They checked my KOPS and it looked OK, but I think I point my toes down a bit when I ride.

I will check the other bike shop in town later this week. They can order Cannondale and Trek and they have a racing team.

Michael
 

· Cycling induced anoesis
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
Michael S. said:
Had a good time at the bike shop today. Although IMO didn't fly to well, everything else was English with a Japanese accent :) .
They can order FELT, GT, and GIANT from their shop. They have one GIANT in there shop that is a bit smaller then what I was looking for.

They wanted me on a M size bike because of my height, but I protested and they put me on a bike-like stand where they adjusted the seat tube, the seat post and the drop handle, which could go up and forward. They checked my KOPS and it looked OK, but I think I point my toes down a bit when I ride.

I will check the other bike shop in town later this week. They can order Cannondale and Trek and they have a racing team.

Michael
So far, so good. Seems like a reputable shop.

While I think it's good to take a pro-active approach to a fitting, it's good to keep in mind that the fitter's job is to guide you. If that means the bike s/he wants you to try is labeled 'M', trust in their judgement, but not to the point that you're uncomfortable. They need to know that. Also, keep in mind that today's frame sizing is somewhat arbitrary, and varies widely between brands/ models, so essentially it becomes just a number or letter. You'll notice this as you test more bikes.

Regarding your fit process, reach and drop requirements should be met first because they're normally a little more difficult to adjust, with saddle height/ KOPS more times than not working themselves out once reach/ drop is right.

As far as toes pointing down, don't fret about it, many of us (along with many pro's) do the same. Once the fitter recognizes this s/he'll adjust saddle height accordingly.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Checked out the other bike shop in the area.
Looks like the only bike I can test ride is a caad 8. And that is in the shop on a spinner.
It is the only bike that is big enough for me out of both bike shops. They just don't stock L size bikes.
Is it a big deal if I go to Tokyo to test ride a bike and then come back to my LBS to buy my bike? I want to ride a FELT, Connandale, and GT.

I was also a bit shocked at the price difference in Japan. The prices are generally more expensive in Japan, but the American dollar is not to hot now either.

The $1500 FELT 75 I was looking at online, was 180,000yen (about $2000). There goes the shoes and pedals I was looking at :)
I am thinking of waiting a bit longer to get the bike I want, with all the components I want. ¥200,000 caad 9, shimano 105? Hmmmm....

Michael
 

· Cycling induced anoesis
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
Michael S. said:
Checked out the other bike shop in the area.
Looks like the only bike I can test ride is a caad 8. And that is in the shop on a spinner.
It is the only bike that is big enough for me out of both bike shops. They just don't stock L size bikes.
Is it a big deal if I go to Tokyo to test ride a bike and then come back to my LBS to buy my bike? I want to ride a FELT, Connandale, and GT.

I was also a bit shocked at the price difference in Japan. The prices are generally more expensive in Japan, but the American dollar is not to hot now either.

The $1500 FELT 75 I was looking at online, was 180,000yen (about $2000). There goes the shoes and pedals I was looking at :)
I am thinking of waiting a bit longer to get the bike I want, with all the components I want. ¥200,000 caad 9, shimano 105? Hmmmm....

Michael
Your plan seems fine, but if you go to Tokyo to test ride some bikes and the LBS's there are reputable and willing to work with you, why not buy from them?

As far as 'test riding' a bike on a stationary trainer, don't bother. It'll give you an idea of fit, but obviously ride and handling will be somewhat difficult to experience.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ah, good question!
Tokyo is 4 hours away and about $300 round trip on the bullet train. I can buy a bike and take it with me on the bullet train.

My local LBS is really cool and probably wouldn't mind me coming in with a bike I already asked them about but bought somewhere else. But, I would like to frequent the LBS, so I wanted to buy the bike there.

Thanks for the tip on the trainer. I was thinking, how will I know how it handles? I am not sure if shops are different in Japan, or just the small local shops in the area. There are only three that I know of. And none of them have a bike I can test ride.

Actually there are hundreds of bike shops, but they only have mamacharies, and make there money by charging $20 to fix a flat tire.

But the next time I am in Tokyo is not till August 12th or so. Patience!!!!!

Michael
 

· Cycling induced anoesis
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
I don't blame you for wanting to patronize your LBS and anticipated that would be your reasoning.

We have to deal with what we're dealt, so on August 12th (or so) go find some bikes to test ride, then update your thread. Good luck!!
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top