Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
379 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I have put about 500 or so miles on my Scott CR1 and have loved the bike.. Few issues though. It came with Cinelli Ram Jam bars 42cm which I feel are to narrow for me. I also find I have a hard time reaching the hoods and find myself trying to prop myself up on my knuckles when I ride on the tops. I have never had bars with a Flat top and can say I absolutely love the flat tops... Especially for a guy with very large hands like I have I find them very comfortable.. The other issue is I feel like I need a stem that will give me some extra height because I feel like I am bent over way to far. The Cinelli Ram Jam is a Stem bar combo so I need both a Stem and a Bar. I am thinking at least a 44cm bar c to c but a 46 probably would not be out of the question either. I am 6'5 250lbs.... So basically I am looking for a bar with Flat Top, with anatomical shallow drops in a 44cm to 46cm c to c... And a Stem with a rise in it that will put me up a little higher. I have about 4" drop from my Seat height to the tops of my bars and would like to decrease that amount... Also I have no idea what size stem to try as far as length? Also as far as mounting it on the fork is there a standard size or how does that work? I hopefully have some detailed enough picture that I can get some good advice so I can make a purchase and get set up so I can ride longer than 35 miles at a time.

Then after I get this issue fixed I need to get the saddle issue fixed.. My Specialized Avatar seat in 143mm width had been no bueno.. I think I would like to try something with a full cutout like maybe an SMP. Any suggestions?.....

Here are my photo's of my Cinelli Ram Jam bar stem combo and the bikes's seat handlebar height difference...









 

·
Cycling induced anoesis
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
There are changes to model lines year to year, so there's no guarantee the info in the Cinelli link (below) is up to date, but if so, it looks like your stem may be a 5 degree. You can measure for length easy enough (center bolt to center of bars). Once that's known you can decide on a new length (probably 1cm shorter) and angle. Assuming you'll get a 31.8mm bar, you'll need a stem with the same bar clamp diameter and a fork clamp diameter of 1 1/8".
http://www.cinelli.it/scripts/accessori.php?Id=3&lang=EN&IdAcc=149

If you like anatomic shallow drop/ short reach CF bars, I recommend the Specialized S-WORKS SL Ergo Carbon Handlebar. There are similar alloy models.
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=47078&menuItemId=9305&eid=5135

Rather than guess at your next bar width, just measure your shoulder width:
http://www.jimlangley.net/crank/bikefit.html
#7 - Measure the distance between the bony protrusions on top of your shoulder blades.

What specific symptoms are you experiencing with this saddle?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
379 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
PJ352 said:
There are changes to model lines year to year, so there's no guarantee the info in the Cinelli link (below) is up to date, but if so, it looks like your stem may be a 5 degree. You can measure for length easy enough (center bolt to center of bars). Once that's known you can decide on a new length (probably 1cm shorter) and angle. Assuming you'll get a 31.8mm bar, you'll need a stem with the same bar clamp diameter and a fork clamp diameter of 1 1/8".
http://www.cinelli.it/scripts/accessori.php?Id=3&lang=EN&IdAcc=149

If you like anatomic shallow drop/ short reach CF bars, I recommend the Specialized S-WORKS SL Ergo Carbon Handlebar. There are similar alloy models.
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=47078&menuItemId=9305&eid=5135

Rather than guess at your next bar width, just measure your shoulder width:
http://www.jimlangley.net/crank/bikefit.html
#7 - Measure the distance between the bony protrusions on top of your shoulder blades.

What specific symptoms are you experiencing with this saddle?

Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it. With my weight though I am not looking for Carbon bars. With my weight of 250lbs shaving weight on the bike is the least of my concerns where I can lose 50-60lbs myself and be way better than cutting oz's on the bike.. lol...

As far as saddle discomfort I have tailbone and perineum discomfort. The tailbone may never be fixed. I had an accident probably 4 years ago where I wheelied over my dirt bike at a high rate of speed and landed on my tailbone. I have never healed from it. But the perineum discomfort I feel can be addressed..
 

·
Cycling induced anoesis
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
lacofdfireman said:
Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it. With my weight though I am not looking for Carbon bars. With my weight of 250lbs shaving weight on the bike is the least of my concerns where I can lose 50-60lbs myself and be way better than cutting oz's on the bike.. lol...

As far as saddle discomfort I have tailbone and perineum discomfort. The tailbone may never be fixed. I had an accident probably 4 years ago where I wheelied over my dirt bike at a high rate of speed and landed on my tailbone. I have never healed from it. But the perineum discomfort I feel can be addressed..
Here's a very similar bar in alloy:
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=47079&menuItemId=9305&eid=5135

Just a FYI.. Specialized stems are 4 position adjustable, meaning you can change angle by 2 degrees with the stem flipped up or down. It allows for some flexibility, but isn't necessary if you pin down saddle to bar drop.

I agree with you about the perineum pressure. Your sit bones should bear the majority of your weight. I couldn't tell from your pics, but I've found the following to be helpful to a number of riders with saddle specific fit issues:
If you saddle is tilted tip down, level it and if it's level, tilt it tip up slightly. Also, move it rearward 5mm's. Those two changes will shift your weight slightly rearward and (hopefully) relieve the frontal pressure. Until you settle the stem length/ angle issue, the saddle adjustment may not do all of what it's supposed to (assuming excessive reach with your current set up) but I'd still make the saddle adjustments and proceed with the others ASAP.

There's always a chance that the saddle just isn't right for you, but these are minor adjustments and IMO worth a try.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
379 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
PJ352 said:
Here's a very similar bar in alloy:
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=47079&menuItemId=9305&eid=5135

Just a FYI.. Specialized stems are 4 position adjustable, meaning you can change angle by 2 degrees with the stem flipped up or down. It allows for some flexibility, but isn't necessary if you pin down saddle to bar drop.

I agree with you about the perineum pressure. Your sit bones should bear the majority of your weight. I couldn't tell from your pics, but I've found the following to be helpful to a number of riders with saddle specific fit issues:
If you saddle is tilted tip down, level it and if it's level, tilt it tip up slightly. Also, move it rearward 5mm's. Those two changes will shift your weight slightly rearward and (hopefully) relieve the frontal pressure. Until you settle the stem length/ angle issue, the saddle adjustment may not do all of what it's supposed to (assuming excessive reach with your current set up) but I'd still make the saddle adjustments and proceed with the others ASAP.

There's always a chance that the saddle just isn't right for you, but these are minor adjustments and IMO worth a try.
Thanks for that link to the Specialized bar. I think I will give that one a try. Out of the Specialized stems in your opinion what is a decent stem from them? I like the idea of 4 position adjustable. That should give me something to play around with...
 

·
Cycling induced anoesis
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
lacofdfireman said:
Thanks for that link to the Specialized bar. I think I will give that one a try. Out of the Specialized stems in your opinion what is a decent stem from them? I like the idea of 4 position adjustable. That should give me something to play around with...
The Comp-set and Pro-set are both good stems. The only differences being weight and aesthetics.

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=41848&menuItemId=9305&eid=5135

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=41846&menuItemId=9305&eid=5135
 

·
Cycling induced anoesis
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
lacofdfireman said:
Just measured my stem which comes out to 5inches and converts to 127mm's... So should I look for a 110mm stem?
Well, there aren't any 127mm stems, so it's either a 120 or 130. You could try to remeasure to narrow it down, otherwise I'd say a 110 would be a good guess for a new stem.

Measure center of bolt to center of bars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
379 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
PJ352 said:
Well, there aren't any 127mm stems, so it's either a 120 or 130. You could try to remeasure to narrow it down, otherwise I'd say a 110 would be a good guess for a new stem.

Measure center of bolt to center of bars.
Ya, I figured there are no 127mm stems. It's probably a 120. It's hard to measure because the bars have a "V" to them where it's hard to know for sure where the center is. I will take a picture in the morning with a Tape measure and have it from center stem with a camera on a straight down angle. I will post it up at work tomorrw between calls.. lol...
 

·
Cycling induced anoesis
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
lacofdfireman said:
Ya, I figured there are no 127mm stems. It's probably a 120. It's hard to measure because the bars have a "V" to them where it's hard to know for sure where the center is. I will take a picture in the morning with a Tape measure and have it from center stem with a camera on a straight down angle. I will post it up at work tomorrw between calls.. lol...
Ok. I noticed that about the bar shape. If someone has a metric tape measure (or straight edge) that would help as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,096 Posts
That's some serious "bar drop" for anybody but a very flexible and experienced cyclist.

I would suggest that you "high thee to a bike shoppe" and get a basic fitting. There are just too many options (i.e., saddle width and shape, bar width, stem length, saddle position relative to crank, not to mention your own flexibility) to give solid advice based upon "pictures."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
379 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Richard said:
That's some serious "bar drop" for anybody but a very flexible and experienced cyclist.

I would suggest that you "high thee to a bike shoppe" and get a basic fitting. There are just too many options (i.e., saddle width and shape, bar width, stem length, saddle position relative to crank, not to mention your own flexibility) to give solid advice based upon "pictures."
Yes Richard you are correct. Problem is at 6'5 there are not alot of options for us on basic bike fit. I went to our local shop and talked to the owner whom I feel is very reputable and very knowledgeable and he basically told fit me to my bike and said ride it for awhile and see how it feels... He did do some saddle adjustments for me but told me to try the bars I currently have on there for awhile and see how I like them after riding for awhile. I can now say that the bars are to low and need to be wider. So that is where I am at right now... Now I need to find the right bars, stem and seat. I originally had the Fizik Airone saddle and when I went to the bike shop he told me my sit bones were to wide for the Airone. He put me on this specialized Avatar that I haven't loved yet... Maybe I just need more miles and condiitioning?
 

·
Cycling induced anoesis
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
lacofdfireman said:
Yes Richard you are correct. Problem is at 6'5 there are not alot of options for us on basic bike fit. I went to our local shop and talked to the owner whom I feel is very reputable and very knowledgeable and he basically told fit me to my bike and said ride it for awhile and see how it feels... He did do some saddle adjustments for me but told me to try the bars I currently have on there for awhile and see how I like them after riding for awhile. I can now say that the bars are to low and need to be wider. So that is where I am at right now... Now I need to find the right bars, stem and seat. I originally had the Fizik Airone saddle and when I went to the bike shop he told me my sit bones were to wide for the Airone. He put me on this specialized Avatar that I haven't loved yet... Maybe I just need more miles and condiitioning?
For certain, Richard is offering sound advice. But if you've already had the basic fitting, been sized for your current saddle and are now at the point where you feel you've identified fit deficiencies, there's nothing extraordinary about tweaks to fit. In fact, they're common after initial fits. If you feel more comfortable having the LBS assist, then that's the route you should take, but I've provided the tools you need to make these minor changes. And FWIW, while pics are good for reference, my advice wasn't based on them, it was based on information you initially provided or I asked you for.

As far as needing more saddle time and better conditioning, that's very possible, but in the interim if you're uncomfortable 'getting there' won't be much fun. Beyond that, there's no saying that in the future you can't drop the bars (slowly) as your conditioning improves. Again, it's fairly common to do so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,096 Posts
I will add one thing based upon "pictures." Your steer tube is cut very short and your integrated bar/stem appears to be a "zero degree" rise. If you do switch it out, get a stem with a +/- 10 degree rise. From what you describe, I really think you need to "rotate" up.

As I said, that appears to be a very "agressive" position.

By the way, I do the bike fitting in our shop.
 

·
trying to HTFU...
Joined
·
1,910 Posts
another alternative might be one of FSAs compact bars which have a flat top, short reach, and shallow drop. i have the alloy version(wing pro alloy) and am happy with the fit and really like the angle/curve of the drops. the 'ergo' bars with the bump in the drops always hurt my hands.

also an SMP user, Evolution, original model, on both roadie and tri-bike. be aware that the stitched logo of the current models _may_ eat your shorts(of course that's true of any stitched-on logo)..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
379 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Alright. here is a photo of my bike's stem length. Taken from top looking down. I am thinking between 4.5 to 5 inches which would probably be a 120mm stem...

On a side note I am really wondering if I should make all these changes or if maybe I should sell my bike and have a custom built for my by Strong Racing again. I loved that bike and should have never sold it. It was kinda funny looking with a Head Tube that was ginormous but it fit me perfectly. On that one my seat was close to even with my bars and everything just felt right. At 6'5 I am just not sure if I will ever be comfy on this 61cm bike... I talked to Carl of Strong Racing and he said he would build me a frame and I would get a 10% discount for being a return customer. Very tempting. Just not sure if I wanna fork out $1800 for a Frame only? Decisions, Decisions...

Anyhoo.. Here are the photo's...



 

·
Cycling induced anoesis
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
I get 4.75 inches which is a 120mm stem.

Not to diminish the Scott, but given your circumstances IMO comparing a custom steel frameset to IT is something of a mismatch. The only negative I see in going the custom route is..... money. :eek:

The only other alternative I thought of would be to get a new fork with an uncut steerer tube. You still have to keep to the manufacturers recommendations (generally no more than 40mm's of spacers, but they vary), but it would get you more height, and with a new bar and stem may result in a better fit. But that route will cost more than your initial plan and isn't without pitfalls, mainly that it might not buy you much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
Those one-piece bars are really cool looking... but don't allow for any adjustments down the road.

You mention not being concerned about getting carbon bars to try to save weight...

In truth many carbon bars don't save much weight, if any. I've got some alloy bars that are lighter than most carbon bars. Same with stems... some alu meet or even beat weight of carbon.

The primary reason to consider carbon bars and stems is that they reduce road vibrations nicely. Might be more of a concern on a steel or alu bike, than on your carbon fiber frame.

There are many different ones with the wider, "wing" shaped tops. I think probably more of this design are made in carbon than in aluminum, but they can be found in both materials. Still, you'll likely have more choices if you stay open to either carbon fiber or aluminum.

I'd suggest you go to a shop that stocks a variety of bars and check them out, in hope of finding something you'll be more comfortable with over the long haul.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top