Yeah maybe if the A group is normally closer than about 100 meters away after both of you going flat out for 50km. Otherwise, you won't notice a hill o' beans of difference. And that's if those wheels are lots more "aero" than what you now have. They might be worse. You can't tell by looking so book time in a wind tunnel.will they take me from B+ to A group?
Nope and your nightmare might be in the form of some kid passing you in the last 50 meters of a balls-out race while riding a POS $700 bike with house-brick shaped rims.will it be like waking up from a nightmare?
^^^^ This.Most A group riders drafting skills somewhere between "sort of competent" and "absolute invisible ninja." The pace of an A group is more demanding and will expose flaws in your drafting skills more readily. Learning to pull off the front while you still have plenty of gas left to get back onto the train (the hardest part of a pace line) will give you a big gain. Learning to anticipate, when to leave space to the rider ahead and when not to, will have huge benefits.
Carbon clincher rims for us amateur cyclists is a (very expensive) step in the wrong direction. Carbon tubular rims for pro road racers is a whole other scenario.Corima tubulars have other-worldly dry braking. Their molding technique is fantastic and their cored construction means the brake pads are hitting what feels like a very smooth still I-beam. There is no squish. In the wet, it's still a carbon rim where you can only use one type of pad.
He was responding to something I said. Not suggesting those were a good idea for anyone likely to read this thread (just incase that's what you thought)Carbon clincher rims for us amateur cyclists is a (very expensive) step in the wrong direction. Carbon tubular rims for pro road racers is a whole other scenario.
Yes, absolutely, thanks. People don't offer consider that a "X" tubular is likely more like "Z" tubular than it is like "X" clincher. This perception that because some pro rides a certain tubular is proof of concept of the clincher version of that tubular is a fallacy. The fundamental differences between tubulars and clinchers is just so vast. Which is not a pro- or anti- tubulars or clinchers statement, but just a statement of fact as it is clear to me spending 99% of my life around bike wheels. But structurally, the tubular tire system is so much kinder to the wheel that it's almost laughable. We're rebuilding a 303 tubular for a customer this week (updating old hub to 11s), and without a tire on it, it had literally zero non-drive tension when it came in the door. A clincher wouldn't last a week like that without becoming unrideable.He was responding to something I said. Not suggesting those were a good idea for anyone likely to read this thread (just incase that's what you thought)
S'awright. I was just commenting on carbon rims (especially clincher rims) in general. I thought that was obvious. That's why my sentence started with 3 generic catch-all words and never mentioned the C-Word rims at all.He was responding to something I said. Not suggesting those were a good idea for anyone likely to read this thread (just incase that's what you thought)
Trying them first is a good idea.thanks for the "reality check"
i think i'll save myself a few Grand, and maybe try to demo a set, somehow?
Dave, appreciate all of the data you share. Averages are averages, so it definitely comes down to where and how you ride. Last night was typical group ride for Spring/Summer we averaged 22mph into a 20mph wind for about 15 miles before turning and flying home at 25-30mph. Those averages don't really tell the story.Let's take your HED Ardennes+ as the "control" sample, and we'll substitute in a 45mm deep Zipp Firecrest 303 for the Reynolds Aero 46. The widest difference seen between those two in the wind tunnel, at 30mph, is 11 watts. That occurs at 12.5* yaw angle, which according to the most credible data accumulated is a condition which occurs roughly 4% of the time. During the approximately 80% of the time in which your yaw angle is 5* or less, there will be between zero and two watts of advantage to the 303 over the HED.