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I hope they use a better bearing than they did in the 5900. The lower 1 1/4" bearing in that one was a piece of junk. They replaced mine twice under warranty even though I was not the original owner. A+ for that but it still sucks. Trek is now giving me a new bearing that will allow a standard fork to fit. I will see if that bearing works for long. If not there is a fix but it requires machining off the lower cups to allow a standard 1 1/8 headset to fit. That will be a last resort.
 

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chamois creme addict
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Campy UT w/ new Madone

terry b said:
Zinn article sez you can use any of the current spindle style cranks.

"The only tool required is a hex key to tighten the headset top cap and to attach the left crankarm on (it takes integrated-spindle cranks from all major manufacturers)."

And even if the crank was in some way proprietary, you could still use all the other parts.
From what I have read, the BB is built to accept the bearings supplied by Trek. One might very well be able to use a Campy Ultra-Torque BB, but I'm guessing the bearings that pressed on the UT crankset would have to be removed, unless they are the identical bearing to the Trek bearing. And the interface on the BB shell is very close in width to the Campy UT cup width. I'm sure lots more information will be forthcoming.

One thing for sure, my luddite-inspired square taper Campy BBs won't be working on the new Madone. That's OK, I would not want put such an inferior, flexy system in a bike so cutting edge :p
 

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shoerhino said:
I don't think that you have to cut anything to use the seatmast. It looks like they have 2 different seatmasts that are different heights and each has some degree of vertical adjustment.
Exactly. Unlike all the other seatmast frames out there where you do have to get the hacksaw out and hope you make the right cut... :eek:
 

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eminence grease
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typ993 said:
Exactly. Unlike all the other seatmast frames out there where you do have to get the hacksaw out and hope you make the right cut... :eek:
Which is far less scary than it sounds since the frames ship (in the case of Look anyway) with a saw guide and a million elastomer spacers that will compensate for the couple of millimeters you might be off by.

I'll admit when I cut mine I measured it about 15 times and even then left it a bit long. But it all worked out in the end.
 

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I saw one yesterday.......

it had a spoecialized label on it though...or was it Obrea, or willier? I can't remember.

Len
That's pretty funny. Although, maybe if it came with "classic" styling, a 5 year waiting list, was way overpriced, and had a following of old guys saying how it "feels "telepathic"...so connected to the bike" you'd get one, right?
 

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Interesting that it gets billed as a "new approach to BB design". I made three ti shells a few months ago...two 90mm wide for my road and CX bikes and one 95mm wide for my MTB that get pressed in bearings for Shimano cranks. Klein, Fisher and Merlin all did it well over a decade ago. What's the big deal? I don't even think Trek is the first major manufacturer to do it *again*. Didn't Scott beat them to the punch on this?

As others have said, it's all borrowed "technology". I don't see a single design detail on these new frames that I haven't seen somewhere else before. That said, if it gets people out riding, that's all the really matters. The only shame will be when people think Trek is responsible for creating these design aspects.
 

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Alien Musician
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I saw one yesterday....

I hate to say it, but it was BEAUTIFUL - sort of an understated red/gray motif.

The shaping of the tubing was really a work of art.

It was $4100 or so, yes I wanted it so bad. I'm not normally a Trek guy but
I went back to the shop later the same day just to touch it (okay I'm sick)
and my wife was looking at a different bike.

No, really, it was a beautiful bike. I bet they'll sell a bunch.
 

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locomotive1
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Saw one at the LBS last Saturday morning. It's the best looking Trek that I've seen. What impressed me was the new Ultegra components that it was equipped with. The LBS owner sais that he was not all that impressed with the ride. I'm not a trekee , but it's a sweet loking bike.
 

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Not a Trek guy either... and like all new advances, I will just wait and see. I am not opposed to them integrating more things into the frame, especially if it is as tough as they say it is.
 

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Eric_H said:
From what I have read, the BB is built to accept the bearings supplied by Trek. One might very well be able to use a Campy Ultra-Torque BB, but I'm guessing the bearings that pressed on the UT crankset would have to be removed, unless they are the identical bearing to the Trek bearing. And the interface on the BB shell is very close in width to the Campy UT cup width. I'm sure lots more information will be forthcoming.

What you read is 100% wrong. Trek does not supply "proprietary" bearings for the new Madone frame.

Both Shimano and Campy cranks/bearings press directly into the frame without a need for special bearings,cups,adapters,shims,etc,etc,etc.

I Haven't tried any of the FSA offerings yet but I can only assume that they will press in without any difficulty.

How do I know this?

I stripped a new 5.5 today of it's OEM Shimano/Bontrager group and installed a new Chorus group for a customer. Crank swap was simple and straightforward.

No adapters or funky bearings needed. :)
 

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Windrider (Stubborn)
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I get it.....

AppleCyclingComputer said:
That's pretty funny. Although, maybe if it came with "classic" styling, a 5 year waiting list, was way overpriced, and had a following of old guys saying how it "feels "telepathic"...so connected to the bike" you'd get one, right?
that was your attempt at being funny.....try again.

As to overpriced.........how can a madone defender say that about any bike?

Ride what you like....if the humor is lost on you, or the fact that the new Madone looks like any one of several bikes on the market, go for it.

Len
 

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Home Brew User!
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Len J said:
that was your attempt at being funny.....try again.

As to overpriced.........how can a madone defender say that about any bike?

Ride what you like....if the humor is lost on you, or the fact that the new Madone looks like any one of several bikes on the market, go for it.

Len
Ramble Mode On

In some ways I with AppleCC on this one. The Madone is getting a little grief because it looks so much like other bikes. However, I never hear that comment in regards to new lugged Steel frames. If they don't all look alike to the casual observer than I don't know what does.

I consider myself fairly bike savvy but if you were to strip the name and cosmetics off new or old lugged steel frame I would have almost no chance identifying them. Maybe by some of the lug details but thats back to cosmetics.

We tend to get overly picky in regards to looks. We all will agree (for the most part) how frame material don't mean a whole lot in the big picture but are quick to swear off a bike because of how it looks.

That tends to be the way with most luxury items.

Ramble Mode Off
 

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Windrider (Stubborn)
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Fair comment, but.........

Lifelover said:
Ramble Mode On

In some ways I with AppleCC on this one. The Madone is getting a little grief because it looks so much like other bikes. However, I never hear that comment in regards to new lugged Steel frames. If they don't all look alike to the casual observer than I don't know what does.

I consider myself fairly bike savvy but if you were to strip the name and cosmetics off new or old lugged steel frame I would have almost no chance identifying them. Maybe by some of the lug details but thats back to cosmetics.

We tend to get overly picky in regards to looks. We all will agree (for the most part) how frame material don't mean a whole lot in the big picture but are quick to swear off a bike because of how it looks.

That tends to be the way with most luxury items.

Ramble Mode Off
to me there is a fundamental difference.

In the case of Lugged steel........it's been iterated and refined over a very long time with the result that the form of a lugged frame has been optimized. In addition, with a quality lugged frame the closer you look the more you see.

Carbon OTOH, is a realtivly new frame material that presumably manufacturers are constantly refining the capabilities of (at least that's what you would think if you read this forum), yet with all the R & D being put into this incredibly modifiable material, many high end carbon bikes are beginning to look exactly the same......what's that about? Are you suggesting that Carbon has reached it's zenith and this "form" is the one that most optimizes the material for a bike application? I don't think so....I think the design is pure "me-to" ism.

Frankly, I was hoping that Trek would use it's market leadership position to do something stunning with their new Madone...instead, we got more of the same.

Aestetics ae a very personal issue.....not everyone likes the same things.......just cause I don't like the looks shouldn't be threatening to someone that does like the look. Just like I'm not threatened because many don't like the looks of some of my bikes....to each their own.

I'm most interested in the ride of the Madone......The 5500 I had, while responsive was the deadest feeling frame I've ever ridden. Hope they have overcome that.

Trek has gotten many people on a bike...good for that.

Len
 

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Len J said:
Are you suggesting that Carbon has reached it's zenith and this "form" is the one that most optimizes the material for a bike application? I don't think so....I think the design is pure "me-to" ism.
Len, do you have anything to back up the part of your statement in bold? I would believe that there are some serious engineers, with some high tech CAD programs that are designing these bikes based on research and testing.

Sometimes I think this board can get a little carried away with the conspiracy theorist in the marketing departments of these companies. Great example below:

Frankly, I was hoping that Trek would use it's market leadership position to do something stunning with their new Madone...instead, we got more of the same.
In other industries (and their online forums) the posters seem to understand that advances in products are small, incremental steps that with many new product designs will lead to better and better products. For example, the old BMW E46 was one of the best cars in the world. but the BMW E90 is slightly better- just slightly. Car enthusiast understand this, and respect the new design to be one more notch towards the ultimate automobile.

But on this forum, you would often think that the CEO's of biking companies are actually secret marketing agents- with no regard to thier product, and just trying to screw over the consumer with hype.

*Len, I should say that I thought your statements were fair, not over the top, and I don't think you are the conspirator of any great scam. I am just making a general statement of numerous postings from numerous people. And I don't want to start any flame wars! :D :D
 

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Trial and error are out, CAD and wind tunnels

Len J said:
to me there is a fundamental difference.

In the case of Lugged steel........it's been iterated and refined over a very long time with the result that the form of a lugged frame has been optimized. In addition, with a quality lugged frame the closer you look the more you see.

Carbon OTOH, is a realtivly new frame material that presumably manufacturers are constantly refining the capabilities of (at least that's what you would think if you read this forum), yet with all the R & D being put into this incredibly modifiable material, many high end carbon bikes are beginning to look exactly the same......what's that about? Are you suggesting that Carbon has reached it's zenith and this "form" is the one that most optimizes the material for a bike application? I don't think so....I think the design is pure "me-to" ism.

Frankly, I was hoping that Trek would use it's market leadership position to do something stunning with their new Madone...instead, we got more of the same.

Aestetics ae a very personal issue.....not everyone likes the same things.......just cause I don't like the looks shouldn't be threatening to someone that does like the look. Just like I'm not threatened because many don't like the looks of some of my bikes....to each their own.

I'm most interested in the ride of the Madone......The 5500 I had, while responsive was the deadest feeling frame I've ever ridden. Hope they have overcome that.

Trek has gotten many people on a bike...good for that.

Len
Because of computer modeling, the frames are going to converge very quickly in what is effective. Stress points, aerodynamics, functional considerations- all of these play a role in the so-called "unification" of form. There is a reason (besides maybe the design rip-off issue brewing) that the Tarmac, Orca, RT700, and Madone share a bunch of the same features, and it is not all because of them being built in the same CF factory.

There is some of that "me-to"ism that you were complaining of. I love the look of a lugged bike, but I don't pretend for one second that I am buying it because of its repairability in the field per se. You could also argue that steel has hit its apex in design and that while there is no more room to improve, whereas carbon fiber gets to start with the design experience of other materials and improve quickly.

The things that make a CF frame better are invisible to the naked eye, whether the weave or modulus, as opposed to steel where you can somehow magically see the lug tube interface internally.

I own three steel bikes and one aluminum. I will probably one day change the aluminum for titanium or CF, but will always have steel. Each material has its advantages and disadvantages. To some extent, I think that Ti will continue to challenge steel far more than CF ever will, which, if the price came down, would probably bump a lot off the market (e.g. Cannondale's Super Six).
 

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Kestreljr said:
In other industries (and their online forums) the posters seem to understand that advances in products are small, incremental steps that with many new product designs will lead to better and better products. For example, the old BMW E46 was one of the best cars in the world. but the BMW E90 is slightly better- just slightly. Car enthusiast understand this, and respect the new design to be one more notch towards the ultimate automobile.
And real car enthusiasts long for the non-bloated purity of the E30! :)
 

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tofurkey hunting
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Len J said:
Frankly, I was hoping that Trek would use it's market leadership position to do something stunning with their new Madone...instead, we got more of the same.
len, these are good points, but IME they are based on looks. the new bottom bracket design is VERY new. the dealy they have going on for the fork crown is quite interesting as well. specifically the fork design is meant to make the MOST of CF's capabilities. my team is sponsored by a trek "dealership" (though i don't ride a trek) so they've been passing around a lot of the marketing info...the overall bike of the look isn't anything stunningly new, but the changes (innovations?), especially for bb and fork/headtube, are at least interesting in a functional way...of course ymmv, etc etc.
 

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Windrider (Stubborn)
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Kestreljr said:
Len, do you have anything to back up the part of your statement in bold? I would believe that there are some serious engineers, with some high tech CAD programs that are designing these bikes based on research and testing.

No, other than the fact that the looks arre so close.......the merging of the TT with the seat stays, the shape of the tubes etc, etc.
Sometimes I think this board can get a little carried away with the conspiracy theorist in the marketing departments of these companies. Great example below:

I wasn't suggesting a conspiracy...rather, I think that there is always tension between development and marketing as to how far to push the aestetic envelope.......this bike appears to take no aesteetic risks.....that's a shame. It's those that push the end of the bell curve that make significant changes.
In other industries (and their online forums) the posters seem to understand that advances in products are small, incremental steps that with many new product designs will lead to better and better products. For example, the old BMW E46 was one of the best cars in the world. but the BMW E90 is slightly better- just slightly. Car enthusiast understand this, and respect the new design to be one more notch towards the ultimate automobile.

I'm seperating functionsl improvements from pure looks. I'm only speaking of the aestetics in my statement.
But on this forum, you would often think that the CEO's of biking companies are actually secret marketing agents- with no regard to thier product, and just trying to screw over the consumer with hype.

*Len, I should say that I thought your statements were fair, not over the top, and I don't think you are the conspirator of any great scam. I am just making a general statement of numerous postings from numerous people. And I don't want to start any flame wars! :D :D
It seems to me, that from a purely aestetics standpoint, Trek took the safe path.

Len
 
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