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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently went from Dura Ace C35's to ENVE 6.7's and the new wheels feel less planted in corners.

Someone in my social circle suggested that it's because my new rims are lighter but I don't think they are. The C35's are ~1500g and the 6.7's are ~1600g. The 6.7's use DT240 hubs, which are lighter than DA hubs, and they both use within a few spokes of each other so the 6.7 rims have to be heavier.

What else could it be?
 

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I recently went from Dura Ace C35's to ENVE 6.7's and the new wheels feel less planted in corners.

Someone in my social circle suggested that it's because my new rims are lighter but I don't think they are. The C35's are ~1500g and the 6.7's are ~1600g. The 6.7's use DT240 hubs, which are lighter than DA hubs, and they both use within a few spokes of each other so the 6.7 rims have to be heavier.

What else could it be?
He's right.

All you have to do is press a little harder on the outside pedal. That'll plant that wheel hard on the tarmac. Or let 5 psi out of the tires if you run 'em hard.
 

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You did get 60mm deep wheels...so they must catch more air...but then I think you said you weight around 235lbs...so maybe it's all in your head?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
He's right.

All you have to do is press a little harder on the outside pedal. That'll plant that wheel hard on the tarmac. Or let 5 psi out of the tires if you run 'em hard.
I can't see how the rims on the new wheels are lighter. They're heavier overall with lighter hubs and thinner spokes. The rims HAVE to be where they are heavier. The rims are wider so I could get away with lower pressure (probably) but I'm already running 95psi (front)/100psi (rear) at 235lbs rider weight so I'm hesitant to go lower.
You did get 60mm deep wheels...so they must catch more air...but then I think you said you weight around 235lbs...so maybe it's all in your head?
Catching air was a thought of mine but it's a BIG difference. Like 100% confident on the old wheels and pretty sketchy on the new ones.
 

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probably cause you're more afraid of falling and scratching them due to the exorbitant price.

likely psychological.
 

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Half the requirement for a fast corner is confidence, if you ain't got that, you are not going to go fast.
I had a confidence issue with my old LSC bontragers, when you really got into a hard corner, they felt like the rims went there way that was separate from the hub. Kinda hoopy. I didn't like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
probably cause you're more afraid of falling and scratching them due to the exorbitant price.

likely psychological.
Not concerned... wheels are rarely scratched in a lowside. Pedals, handlebars, sure...
Half the requirement for a fast corner is confidence, if you ain't got that, you are not going to go fast.
I had a confidence issue with my old LSC bontragers, when you really got into a hard corner, they felt like the rims went there way that was separate from the hub. Kinda hoopy. I didn't like that.
It was the first couple corners sketchy cornering that made me start paying attention to it. Never had confidence issues cornering so I have to believe that any issues now are a result of near crashing that happened in the first handful of turns on the new wheels.
 

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Not concerned... wheels are rarely scratched in a lowside. Pedals, handlebars, sure...

It was the first couple corners sketchy cornering that made me start paying attention to it. Never had confidence issues cornering so I have to believe that any issues now are a result of near crashing that happened in the first handful of turns on the new wheels.
So the weight is out on the rim. Maybe the rim is super stiff, and laced to weak or too few spokes and a "soft" hub shell. The spokes aren't strong enough to keep the wheel from flexing, so it wouldn't hold a line. It would also be skitterish under the 230+20# load. They were probably designed for a 140-160 pound rider. Do they seem to wander around on the road when going all-out or climbing?

One thing for sure: if the wheels are stiff, they'll hold a steady line when rider loads up the outside pedal with his upper body. Amazing how controllable the bike is leaning through the curve. If the wheels still feel uncertain, they're probably too flexy. Mike T might have something to say about this.
 

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Your tires and air pressure.

Suggesting the wheel doesn't feel "planted" makes me think the wheels are skipping, meaning you're having tire and/or pressure issues.

The wheel itself is going to have virtually nothing to do with that (if there were really significant flex issues, I'd think you'd be noticing it hitting the brake pads on hard corners).
 

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Are you running the same tires as before?

Also, I can't imagine running 6.7's where I ride. I have 3.4 clinchers and Bontrager aeolus tubulars (3's I think) and would not go any deeper. The wind is extremely variable in direction and velocity in the mountains
Not concerned... wheels are rarely scratched in a lowside. Pedals, handlebars, sure...

It was the first couple corners sketchy cornering that made me start paying attention to it. Never had confidence issues cornering so I have to believe that any issues now are a result of near crashing that happened in the first handful of turns on the new wheels.
 

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Are you running the same tires as before?

Also, I can't imagine running 6.7's where I ride. I have 3.4 clinchers and Bontrager aeolus tubulars (3's I think) and would not go any deeper. The wind is extremely variable in direction and velocity in the mountains
but but the pros run them....
 

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Those are fairly deep wheels. They get buffeted by wind when changing directions (cornering) quite frequently. This gives that odd feeling of either fighting the corner or too light and twitchy in the corner. Either one of those incidents will make the wheel feel less stable. I've ridden a lot of wheels and would not choose 6.7's for twisty rides for sure.
 

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Those are fairly deep wheels. They get buffeted by wind when changing directions (cornering) quite frequently. This gives that odd feeling of either fighting the corner or too light and twitchy in the corner. Either one of those incidents will make the wheel feel less stable. I've ridden a lot of wheels and would not choose 6.7's for twisty rides for sure.
That would explain it!
 

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I found the same thing when going from 202's to 404's, they just didn't feel as good in the corners. There's a thread around here somewhere about it. I'm more used to them now and think I throw them into the corners just as hard but haven't been back on the 202's to compare. In the end I think I put it down to stiffer rims (not necessarily wheels) and agree that they do catch a bit of wind when changing direction and I've had a couple of "moments" because of it. I also think there is a slight gyroscopic effect when trying to turn a deeper wheel, just takes a fraction more effort to knock it off its axis. Not sure if it is also an acoustic thing as the deeper rim amplifies the road noise a bit when cornering and can sometimes sound like chatter from sliding. I think in the end it is about confidence as much as anything.
 

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I recently went from Dura Ace C35's to ENVE 6.7's and the new wheels feel less planted in corners.

Someone in my social circle suggested that it's because my new rims are lighter but I don't think they are. The C35's are ~1500g and the 6.7's are ~1600g. The 6.7's use DT240 hubs, which are lighter than DA hubs, and they both use within a few spokes of each other so the 6.7 rims have to be heavier.

What else could it be?
One thing nobody has mentioned. What is the internal width of the rims on each of these wheelsets? A wider rim will feel more planted while a narrower rim will feel more squirmy because the tire will have more of a "light bulb" profile.
 

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Your tires and air pressure.

Suggesting the wheel doesn't feel "planted" makes me think the wheels are skipping, meaning you're having tire and/or pressure issues.

The wheel itself is going to have virtually nothing to do with that (if there were really significant flex issues, I'd think you'd be noticing it hitting the brake pads on hard corners).
yup. And if those rims are wider then what you're coming from, internally, the same air pressure you were using on a more narrow rim will result in a harder tires.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Your tires and air pressure.

Suggesting the wheel doesn't feel "planted" makes me think the wheels are skipping, meaning you're having tire and/or pressure issues.

The wheel itself is going to have virtually nothing to do with that (if there were really significant flex issues, I'd think you'd be noticing it hitting the brake pads on hard corners).
Same tires and pressure... I guess I'll try lower pressure.
Are you running the same tires as before?

Also, I can't imagine running 6.7's where I ride. I have 3.4 clinchers and Bontrager aeolus tubulars (3's I think) and would not go any deeper. The wind is extremely variable in direction and velocity in the mountains
Same tire and pressures, I'll try lower pressure. I haven't done any 40mph+ descents since I got the wheels (mostly flat rides). They feel really planted though. I think my weight helps with that.

Those are fairly deep wheels. They get buffeted by wind when changing directions (cornering) quite frequently. This gives that odd feeling of either fighting the corner or too light and twitchy in the corner. Either one of those incidents will make the wheel feel less stable. I've ridden a lot of wheels and would not choose 6.7's for twisty rides for sure.
Good call. I have shallow wheels I can use for twisty/climby rides but for most of my riding the 6.7's kick ass.

One thing nobody has mentioned. What is the internal width of the rims on each of these wheelsets? A wider rim will feel more planted while a narrower rim will feel more squirmy because the tire will have more of a "light bulb" profile.
Yes the new rims are wider. 26mm front, 24mm rear... the old ones are 20.9mm. Not sure about internal widths but probably proportionally smaller as well. I can try running lower pressure but I'm already on 95f/100r which is lower than most recommend for my weight.
 

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He's right.

All you have to do is press a little harder on the outside pedal. That'll plant that wheel hard on the tarmac. Or let 5 psi out of the tires if you run 'em hard.
I've never understood this logic. How does weighting the outside pedal increase the weight you're putting on the tire?
 
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