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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Call me cynical but it looks like Shimano and Sram are ceding the mechanical group market to the Chinese aka Sensah. But from what I have seen online the Chinese are also working on a electronic group set that will be ready in a year or so


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Time marches on. I won't be satisfied, though, until the gruppos also include the synthesized voice of Bob Roll gently suggesting what the next gear change ought to be. If you ignore Roll's advice, a glitchy, alien Lance Armstrong yells at you.
 

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Shimano is still making mechanical groupsets in 105 and down, and I'd bet a sandwich from my favorite deli that there will eventually be an Ultegra mechanical groupset in a year or so.
 

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Nothing wrong with 105, but I hope you are right. Mechanical option still holds appeal to many riders.
 

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If you don't like it please remember to vote with your Dollars and buy 105 mechanical for your next needed group. Personally I see the appeal of Di2 but to me it's not worth the $1,000 premium over mechanical. And I can afford it, so to me price needs to come down a LOT on Di2 before it has mass appeal.
 

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Call me cynical but it looks like Shimano and Sram are ceding the mechanical group market to the Chinese aka Sensah. But from what I have seen online the Chinese are also working on a electronic group set that will be ready in a year or so
I highly doubt they will give away market share on mecha, a segment they have poured so much engineering R&D into over the years. Worst case scenario mechanical will just go down further below premium to 105/LX etc.
 

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I highly doubt they will give away market share on mecha, a segment they have poured so much engineering R&D into over the years. Worst case scenario mechanical will just go down further below premium to 105/LX etc.
It's not rocket science........and they've been perfectly willing to leave behind the engineering for 8, 9, 10 and 11 speed and triples so I don't see this being any different.

Market share is another matter. Again not rocket science.......and despite the cost of DI2 I doubt the manufacturing cost is actually that high and will only get cheaper over time.......so it wouldn't surprise me if in the future they flood the market with a cheap line of electronic and just do away with the market for mechanical.

I like mechanical and I know other cyclist do too........but much like I recently found out when I needed a new flip phone it's entirely possible mechanical just won't be much of a thing someday. Either because not enough people still want it or because electric is just as cheap or cheaper for them to make so they'll just eliminate the choice.

(flip phone not the best analogy because I did eventually find one but you get the point)
 

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Call me cynical but it looks like Shimano and Sram are ceding the mechanical group market to the Chinese aka Sensah.
Sensah? They aren't innovating anything. They're literally copying existing Shimano/Sram designs and sticking their name on it.
They will never be sold on a new bike from any legitimate retailer unless they want to face lawsuits.

And when you buy your Sensah knockoff groupset on Aliexpress and it breaks in 500mi. Shimano and Sram won't be too worried about ceding market share.

 

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Sensah? They aren't innovating anything. They're literally copying existing Shimano/Sram designs and sticking their name on it.
They will never be sold on a new bike from any legitimate retailer unless they want to face lawsuits.

And when you buy your Sensah knockoff groupset on Aliexpress and it breaks in 500mi. Shimano and Sram won't be too worried about ceding market share.

Buy cheap, buy twice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Sensah? They aren't innovating anything. They're literally copying existing Shimano/Sram designs and sticking their name on it.
They will never be sold on a new bike from any legitimate retailer unless they want to face lawsuits.

And when you buy your Sensah knockoff groupset on Aliexpress and it breaks in 500mi. Shimano and Sram won't be too worried about ceding market share.

State bicycle is already selling a 1x State rebranded Sensah shifters and derailleur here in the USA. I believe they are all sold out. My understanding is that the first version of the 11 speed had problems because of a plastic piece breaking and that has been addressed by switching to a aluminum piece. It probably won’t shift as smoothly as a Shimano or Sram but they are good at iterative development and I think they will close the gap in the next year or so. As to the electronic group set, it’s not Sensah but another manufacturer with a wonky name that’s working on their own wireless electronic groupo


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Can these wireless ones be jammed? I know nothing about bikes, but I do know you can jam Bluetooth 5 pretty easily (similar to how you jammed the old a/b/g wireless routers with a certain home appliance). I'd be nervous that the cyclist next to me is a radiohead with something under their seat (because they can surely wire up a jammer).

Off topic: Is there Arduino style libraries/projects for bikes? Currently I using an esp32 with a few LSM6DSOX's to create a broken-back-man's pool table lever (level's the table to .006"... so far), but I thought about starting my next project for biking. I just started biking, so I don't know what is out there.
 

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Can these wireless ones be jammed? I know nothing about bikes, but I do know you can jam Bluetooth 5 pretty easily (similar to how you jammed the old a/b/g wireless routers with a certain home appliance). I'd be nervous that the cyclist next to me is a radiohead with something under their seat (because they can surely wire up a jammer).

Off topic: Is there Arduino style libraries/projects for bikes? Currently I using an esp32 with a few LSM6DSOX's to create a broken-back-man's pool table lever (level's the table to .006"... so far), but I thought about starting my next project for biking. I just started biking, so I don't know what is out there.
Oh, these can be jammed.
In fact, with Bluetooth 6 you can easily Ram the Jam.

Arduino libraries and projects? What are you, stuck in the 90s? You should elevate to the newest accelerometers and boost your digital gyroscopics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Sensah? They aren't innovating anything. They're literally copying existing Shimano/Sram designs and sticking their name on it.
They will never be sold on a new bike from any legitimate retailer unless they want to face lawsuits.

And when you buy your Sensah knockoff groupset on Aliexpress and it breaks in 500mi. Shimano and Sram won't be too worried about ceding market share.

Tigster,
I get where you are coming from, but the days of the Chinese stealing or reverse engineering are almost at an end. What they are focusing on now seems to be on improving their quality and intellectual value aka patents. So, they are working in avoiding infringing in existing patents while coming up with independent workarounds and patenting their own designs. My take is that entrepreneurial thinking (even within the restrictions of communism) is taking flight. We really need to look at how we can start making things here instead of other countries.


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Market share is another matter. Again not rocket science.......and despite the cost of DI2 I doubt the manufacturing cost is actually that high and will only get cheaper over time.......so it wouldn't surprise me if in the future they flood the market with a cheap line of electronic and just do away with the market for mechanical.
When/if that happens I'll happily "upgrade" to DI2. It's just we are pretty far away from that now with DI2 in Ultegra for example costing $1,000 more than the equivalent Ultegra mechanical. But I've got no idea of their manufacturing costs and margins and for all I know they are charging a huge premium and taking big profits from the early adopters to DI2. Well not so early anymore but if it's the pricing that the market will bear then it's the right pricing.
 
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