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Welcome to the real world my friend

Isn't it a fairly easy conclusion to make that they are all doing transfusions and dope or some combo of at this point? I think so. Am I shocked? No. Truthfully I feel quite indifferent.
 

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These dope doctors need to consult a security expert or something. "Son of Rudy" what kind of secret is that? Might as well have everyone's passport photocopied next to it.

Not that a doping pro cyclist should be a shock in the first place but nobody should be surprised that a graduate of the E German sports system during the days of program 1425 is a doper.
 

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Ulrich has so much pressure on him since winning his first Tour. He was supposed to be the next great Tour rider, and we know how the next eight Tours went for Ulrich. Should we be surprised by this, of course not. It's Tour time and Armstrong isn't around, although we still get the Armstrong stories thanks to Frankie Andreau.

Since Andreau is still attached to the cycling community, that is if he is still doing commentary for OLN at this year's tour, he stands to lose a lot by having his wife give this testimony. He does have a plush job for a former domestique. A lot of former pro athletes do not get this chance. I do take that in consideration. He will be ridiculed by far more than just this board by having her speak out. There reallly isn't any benefits other than possibly a book deal and the talk show circuit, which she would not be warmly received if she did. As much as I admire Armstrong, my personal trainer friends remind me of how rare his accomplishments are and the toll it does take on the human body. I think. like it or not, we are going to continue to see these stories come out. I hate them as much as anyone.
Unfortunately, the cyclists are the victims to a sport whose sponsors place a large amount of pressure to win. We all know the tragic tale of Marco Pantani. With the possiblity of this story being true, we need to look beyond our heroes to the people who push these athletes to the brink in the name of money. They are the villans. Maybe, it also falls upon the fans a bit, because we want to see these great accomplishments take place. Athletes are no different than the freaks at a circus. We pay money to watch them do something out of the oridnary, and sometimes the price to accomplish that is very great. Sometimes it ruins reputations, legacies, and even worst, it takes a life. I hope that Armstrong is innocent, but with a sport that has been plagued with dopers over the past couple of decades, we must be ready to accept that in order to keep up with the peloton, that our favorite riders sometimes do things to keep a paycheck coming to feed their families and maintain a level.
 

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The great western, capitalist, pharma sports machine.

Fignon's Barber said:
Who would have thought? A product of the former East German sports machine using performance enhancing drugs? shocking!

I don't think there's anything exceptional about the former East German sports machine in todays world. That may seem like a quaint and simple way point in doping history in the next 10 to 20 years. We already have students and professionals taking Anti-Narcolepsy Drugs so they don't have to sleep and thus study or work almost 24-7. How do you compete against that in the real world? How about if two billion Chinese and Indian works that take drugs so they can work 24-7... How long until you'll have to take them too?
 

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Ulrich has so much pressure on him since winning his first Tour. He was supposed to be the next great Tour rider, and we know how the next eight Tours went for Ulrich. Should we be surprised by this, of course not. It's Tour time and Armstrong isn't around, although we still get the Armstrong stories thanks to Frankie Andreau.

Since Andreau is still attached to the cycling community, that is if he is still doing commentary for OLN at this year's tour, he stands to lose a lot by having his wife give this testimony. He does have a plush job for a former domestique. A lot of former pro athletes do not get this chance. I do take that in consideration. He will be ridiculed by far more than just this board by having her speak out. There reallly isn't any benefits other than possibly a book deal and the talk show circuit, which she would not be warmly received if she did. As much as I admire Armstrong, my personal trainer friends remind me of how rare his accomplishments are and the toll it does take on the human body. I think. like it or not, we are going to continue to see these stories come out. I hate them as much as anyone.
Unfortunately, the cyclists are the victims to a sport whose sponsors place a large amount of pressure to win. We all know the tragic tale of Marco Pantani. With the possiblity of this story being true, we need to look beyond our heroes to the people who push these athletes to the brink in the name of money. They are the villans. Maybe, it also falls upon the fans a bit, because we want to see these great accomplishments take place. Athletes are no different than the freaks at a circus. We pay money to watch them do something out of the oridnary, and sometimes the price to accomplish that is very great. Sometimes it ruins reputations, legacies, and even worst, it takes a life. I hope that Armstrong is innocent, but with a sport that has been plagued with dopers over the past couple of decades, we must be ready to accept that in order to keep up with the peloton, that our favorite riders sometimes do things to keep a paycheck coming to feed their families and maintain a level.
Pull the other one, it's got bells on!

It is human nature to look for an edge. Some will draw the line at breaking or bending the rules, some will do whatever they can to win.

No one is forcing these riders to take anything.

Several years ago I was working for a shop who had a junior national champion riding for their team. This guy was an amazing talent who made adult riders in their 20's suffer in races. He was given the opportunity to ride in Italy for a team that served one of the big professional teams. I remember him leaving for Italy full of anticipation and excitement. This kid loved cycling and was about to take the next step toward his dream. Barely 10 days later he was back, but all his illusions had been shattered because he realised that he would be required to dope. He had the strength of character to let go of his dream rather than take the easy option.

These riders had the strenght of will to forgo partying in their teens, to give up many things we take for granted etc, to achieve success. Are we to believe that they doped from junior level?

I love cycling and it angers me that people will make excuses for these cheats. Maybe it is time to ban convicted dopers from the Pro Tour permanantly as well as banning teams from employing them after their riding careers are over, so there is no way to the top once you're caught and you are banned from involvement in the sport in a managerial position. I don't want to see riders like TH racing in the Classics and GT's ever again. Let Them eke out a living on their domestic Crit circuit where I'm sure they'll receive a less frosty reception.
 

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Ulrich has so much pressure on him since winning his first Tour. He was supposed to be the next great Tour rider, and we know how the next eight Tours went for Ulrich. Should we be surprised by this, of course not. It's Tour time and Armstrong isn't around, although we still get the Armstrong stories thanks to Frankie Andreau.

I hope you're not implying seriously that you think Ullrich is just turning to doping now? He was at his best at the very height of the dope 'til you drop era.
 

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Dwayne Barry said:
I hope you're not implying seriously that you think Ullrich is just turning to doping now? He was at his best at the very height of the dope 'til you drop era.
No, not at all. He has failed drug tests in the past, granted not for PED. I don't think he is a saint. It is obvious that Armstrong has taken the pressure of the truth away from many of these individuals. With the Armstrong witch hunt nearly over, other riders must take up the story. Of course they are going to look at the favorites.

I am not making excuses for these athletes either. The way the system is set up, there is obviously pressure from many ends for these athletes to perform. I mentioned that at the end of the day, these riders are putting food on the table for their families, and therefore, need to perform as individuals to keep their jobs. There are many reasons that go into the whole doping process. In some ways they are victims, and in other ways they are a product of a system that they have to make personal decisions that effect their health, their integrity, and their success. Obviously, these athletes have good intentions when they enter the professional ranks. Not one of us, unless we have ridden on that level understands how grueling it is.
 

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Red Sox Junkie said:
Feed their families. Give me a break. This has nothing to do with feeding their families. It is about unbridled ambition and desire to succeed.
And receive the rewards for their success, ie. feed the family. Obviously the financial gain must be considered when one considers to start doping. This is their living.
 

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adaml said:

It's NOT the Kaiser .......(from Daily Spin )

Ullrich and Pevenage deny allegations

A report in Monday’s edition of the Spanish newspaper El Pais has linked T-Mobile captain Jan Ullrich and sporting director Rudy Pevenage to the Spanish authorities' ongoing investigation into alleged doping practices in cycling. The paper reported Monday that Spanish police seized blood bags from an apartment in Madrid, containing codenames for the athletes who owned the blood. The codes "JAN" and "Hijo Rudicio" (Son of Rudy) have allegedly appeared on seized documents and blood samples.

Read the whole statement @ Team T-Mobile.
 

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rocco said:
I don't think there's anything exceptional about the former East German sports machine in todays world. That may seem like a quaint and simple way point in doping history in the next 10 to 20 years.
The East German communist party developed a sports program where they forcedly injected steroids,testosterone, growth hormone,etc. into children as young as 11 against their will. This is all documented from many of the late 1990's trials. I only pray that this never becomes " a quaint and simple way point in doping history". I was just pointing out that ullrich is a product of the tail end of this system.
 

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And receive the rewards for their success, ie. feed the family. Obviously the financial gain must be considered when one considers to start doping. This is their living.
You sound like Latrell Sprewell with the feed my family crap. Professional cyclists make more than minimum wage. Anyway, I don't know too many 19 year olds who are thinking about feeding their familes. Do you think Jan needs the money, is that what is driving him? No! He is being driven by his competitive nature and ego. He wants to be remembered as a champion and not the biggest waste of talent that cycling has seen.
 

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Red Sox Junkie said:
You sound like Latrell Sprewell with the feed my family crap. Professional cyclists make more than minimum wage. Anyway, I don't know too many 19 year olds who are thinking about feeding their familes. Do you think Jan needs the money, is that what is driving him? No! He is being driven by his competitive nature and ego. He wants to be remembered as a champion and not the biggest waste of talent that cycling has seen.
Not every professional cyclist makes what Ulrich makes. Look at the domestic teams. Those guys live very tight. Watch The Hard Road and you will see the sacrifices they make to be a pro. It isn't hard to see why they would take a chance to move up.
 

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Fignon's Barber said:
The East German communist party developed a sports program where they forcedly injected steroids,testosterone, growth hormone,etc. into children as young as 11 against their will. This is all documented from many of the late 1990's trials. I only pray that this never becomes " a quaint and simple way point in doping history". I was just pointing out that ullrich is a product of the tail end of this system.

I understand... I'm pointing out that we're all going to have to take PEDs in the near future. I've said it before and I want to repeat it here. We already have students and professionals taking Anti-Narcolepsy Drugs so they don't have to sleep and thus study/work almost 24-7. How do you compete against that in the real world? How about a two billion Chinese and Indian works that take drugs so they can work 24-7... How long until you'll have to take them too? Welcome to the post-humanist world.
 
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