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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Needs some help...

I've taken my bike in 3 times and about to go for a fourth... My rear der (04 -Ultegra) has not been sounding to get when I ride....

Here are the symptoms... When I'm in the saddle everything seems ok, anytime I stand up and really pedal maybe going up a hill or if i want to do a sprint... My der starts rattling like a snake... it's to the point that i can't really ride like I normally would because I know if I do it it will make noise... It sounds/looks like the derailer "WANT'S" to change gears on it's own.... but it never really shifts.. and thats where the noise I guess is coming to play... I just know to ride my bike... LOL i do not know how to fix any issue like this..

Now I know i mentioned that this der is an 04... but trust me I have not put that many miles that would make say that its just old and I need to get a new one... But if you guys think otherwise.. please let me know...
 

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Is your chain or cassette worn? You might be able to easily solve this your self, is the dérailleur trying to shift up or down? Either way rotate the barrel adjuster a quarter turn in the opposite direction and it should work fine. It is hard to simulate this kind of problem on a work stand for the frame is not flexing as when it is under load. Good luck and be well.
 

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rattlesnake is quite common amongst rear derailleurs and there are a billion reasons for it.

If it's not worn stuff, an adjustment in cable tension, it's usually a bent derailleur, bent hanger or the likes.

So many reasons out there, sometimes it's really hard to isolate the reason why rattlesnake happens. It doesn't really mean your LBS wrenches suck, it's more like they don't know you bike while you ride it as shifting on the stand is a lot easier than shifting under load.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
CleavesF said:
it's usually a bent derailleur, bent hanger or the likes.

Y'know come to think of it... i do remember dropping the bike on the side of the rear der.... Maybe that could be it..

Great but now i don't want to take it in.. have my LBS agree and then what do I say to get the bike out of there... I don't want to feel forced into buying a new der from the LBS when i know i can get one cheaper online....
 

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R1000 said:
Y'know come to think of it... i do remember dropping the bike on the side of the rear der.... Maybe that could be it..

Great but now i don't want to take it in.. have my LBS agree and then what do I say to get the bike out of there... I don't want to feel forced into buying a new der from the LBS when i know i can get one cheaper online....

Not that I want to be a douche - but - earlier you mentioned that you "just know how to ride the bike..."

Whom do you plan on having install and set-up this "cheaper" derailleur???

Just curious.........

Zach
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Qstick333 said:
Not that I want to be a douche - but - earlier you mentioned that you "just know how to ride the bike..."

Whom do you plan on having install and set-up this "cheaper" derailleur???

Just curious.........

Zach
good pick up... yea your right... I guess I have no choice....
 

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R1000 said:
good pick up... yea your right... I guess I have no choice....

Not unless you are ready to start working in your bike. This is usually best taken on with the LBS as your ally so they can steer you in the right direction and provide tips etc... Once you have a firm grip on repairs, then start buying stuff online...

Buy the parts from the LBS and ask that they show you how to set them up. Take pizza/beer/soda/food etc... and be respectful and I suspect you will find they are decent folks. If not, find a new LBS to learn from...

Zach
 

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If you damaged it when you droped it the hanger may just need replacing or straightening, depending on your frame material. In any case, your shop should be able to do this cheaply.

If this is the case, I would say your shop sucks. They should have looked at this and straightened it out when you brought it in.

What did they do when you brought it in? If they adjusted the derailuer look into your chain and cassette being worn. How many miles do you have on it?

Asking a bike shop to show you how to do minor repairs is fine. i.e., derailuer adjustments but major ones are a no, no! Often times they are much too busy for this is how they make their living, and it is an insult. Would you expect an auto repair place to take the time to teach you how to replace your brake pads or your favorite chef show you how to cook. I think not.

A better approach is to ask them if there is a repair class you can take or if they can recommend a repair book, so you can begin to learn how to do your own repairs. If they are cool they might offer to show you but at least they can point you in the right direction.

Ray
 

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raymonda said:
Asking a bike shop to show you how to do minor repairs is fine. i.e., derailuer adjustments but major ones are a no, no! Often times they are much too busy for this is how they make their living, and it is an insult. Would you expect an auto repair place to take the time to teach you how to replace your brake pads or your favorite chef show you how to cook. I think not.

A better approach is to ask them if there is a repair class you can take or if they can recommend a repair book, so you can begin to learn how to do your own repairs. If they are cool they might offer to show you but at least they can point you in the right direction.

Ray
In over 20 years of going to various shops I've never had one not show me anything I asked when I had been an established customer. The reality is that they realize you are going to learn somewhere, why not through them as long as you buy the tools and parts through them. Pay for labor and get an explanation as the part is being installed. I've never had a shop say no........

Zach
 

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I purchased my components through my LBS and built up the frame in their shop. They faced the BB and had the headset setting tools so it made the job much easier. They even have me a discount on the components.
 

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CleavesF said:
rattlesnake is quite common amongst rear derailleurs and there are a billion reasons for it.

If it's not worn stuff, an adjustment in cable tension, it's usually a bent derailleur, bent hanger or the likes.

So many reasons out there, sometimes it's really hard to isolate the reason why rattlesnake happens. It doesn't really mean your LBS wrenches suck, it's more like they don't know you bike while you ride it as shifting on the stand is a lot easier than shifting under load.
What exactly is Rattlesnake? wait - i think i heard this last night.. got it now.

Yeah - i'd go with barrel adjustment first.

or maybe he hasn't lubed his chain?
 

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Perhaps it would be good to setup a time with this shop or another one when they can work on while you are there. I've had problems (especially at places that are busy) where you describe in detail what is going on, the person who takes the order writes down "adjust deraileur", which they do (it might be someone else doing the work), and then they give it back and never looked into your real issue. Perhaps if they work on it at the same time as you are describing the problem you might have better results--plus you can try it out while you are at the shop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
well i took it again yesterday evening.... he switched my chain out... as he said my old one "Stretched"( can someone explain to me the meaning of that) and put on a new one... a dura ace chain... ($55) and it looks like it fixed the issue, he told me to ride it and see how it feels but I only had flip flops on.. so I really couldn't do a lot of riding...

Here's a break down of when i asked him how much would it be for a new Der and chain... 160 all together... does that sound right to you guys?? I think i really need to start to learn how to do my own fixes...

I'm getting noise in the BB..I'd like to see if "I" can do that myself.. is that a hard thing to do?
 

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Chain stretch

The term chain stretch refers to what happens when the rollers & pins in your chain (the parts that allow it to roll over your cogs & c-rings) wear and allow the chain to lengthen. It happens to every chain that gets used. It causes sluggish shifting, chain skip, wear on other parts (cassette & chainrings), and is noisy - as you experienced. Did they mention that if you have significant chain wear you would need to replace your cassette too? You'll know it if you stand to climb or sprint and the chain skips over a tooth on the cog.

Noises in the bottom bracket are very common. Most of the time it's caused by a loose BB cup, worn/damaged BB bearing, not enough grease/anti-seize compound used during BB installation, dirt in between the BB cup and BB shell or some combination of the above. Sometimes it can be chainring bolts loosening. Also with modern frame materials and design the sound can resonate all over the place. I've had customers tell me they had a bottom bracket creak that turned out to be dirt/grit in the seat-post clamp, dirt/grit in the seat tube, a cracked rear rim, the anodizing wearing off spokes at the cross in either wheel, low spoke tension (again the crossing spokes making the noise. dirty cleat/pedal interface and damaged/worn pedal bearings. Noises will drive you nuts, so try to be patient with that problem.

As for learning to work on your own bike, the best books to get you there are (in order of detail and ranking) #1 - Barnett Manual, #2 - Park Big Blue Book, #3 - Bicycling Repair manual, #4 - the Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance. Talk to your shop about learning the repairs. If you are an established customer and approach them with the angle of "I want to learn how to repair my own bike" as apposed to "you're prices & labor rates really suck" you'll probably get some good advice at the least. This time of year is the worst though. We barely can keep up with the repairs in the shop, much less show anyone how to maintain/repair their own. One more big thing. If you're not comfortable doing something yourself, take it to a good shop. Repairing someone's mistakes often take longer than the original repair. So take that times the labor rate in your area and the costs mount quickly.

Good luck,
Bob
 

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It is also possible that you have gunk built up in the BB cable guide. I remember reading an article from Sheldon Brown describing the quasi "phantom shifting" you describe when standing. The problem is often enhanced when riding softer frames that bend a bit more under load. The idea is that when you apply more force (while standing out of the saddle), the frame twists a bit. If your cable guide has gunk in it, the cable can stick in it just enough to move with the frame's twisting instead of sliding causing the der to move just enough to shift or almost shift gears. Some frames twist more than others and Sheldon talks of older steel frames that often develop this problem.

Might be as simple as cleaning out the cable guide. This often happens to me when energy drinks drip from my bottle and run down the down tube, gunking up the works. I don't get the phantom shifting, but I do get slow or non existant upshifts as when cable is let out, the gooey mess in the guide holds on to it for a sec.
 
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