[jamesstout]

hi,
does anyone know if the following symptoms can be cause dby overtraining as i have them and docs cant seem to work out why:
high cortisol
low testosterone
low red bloodcell count/haematocrit
high tsh but seemingly ok thyroid action
bonking/blackingo ut on rides
it took me 21 hours without andy food or water to concentrate urine
yellow xanthochromia of hands/feet (i dont overload on carrots)
and to top it all off my dehydrated weight was 62.5 kilos at 190cm so not looking like straight cushings.
Any ideas? its really annoying cos i cant race/train they wont let me.

 

[cwaltond]

You have an endocrinologist, right? (You need to see one.) You should ask him/her these questions. Weight gain is not required for a diagnosis of Cushing's. I suspect that they just haven't finished the workup yet and that's why they haven't given you a diagnosis. If they've done all the tests and say they can't figure things out, ask to be referred to another group for a second opinion. Advocate for your own health. And obviously stay off the bike since you are having blackouts.

Disclaimer: I'm not a licensed doc (still in school) so do not take this as a professional's opinion, just trying to be helpful.

 

[amygdala]

you need an endocrinologist

I agree with "cwaltond." I am a physician (not an endocrinologist) and those signs and symptoms are not being caused by overtraining.

 

[amygdala]

Hmmm. Just did a bit of reading and maybe, in extreme circumstances, this could be from training too hard. Elevated cortisol and decreased testosterone can certainly occur, but I can't explain the TSH, and the xanthochromia doesn't make sense. How old are you and just how hard are you training? In any event, I'd lay off until you get some answers.

 

[jamesstout]

its quite possible the xanthochromia is unrelated i think. As for the TSH could that not be to do with prolonged cortisol exposure? I am seeing a prof endochrinologist who normally does research only very senior as i have seen several RUBBISH ones who said there was nothing wrong after they dismissed type one diabetes. One even commenced insulin without a positive check for diabetes and nealry killed me.

The endochrinologist seems to agree its not overtraining but then a lot of registrars who saw me were saying it was back in the ball park as an idea recently?

i was trainign maybe u to 250 miles a week + turbo sessions up to 2 times prob not eating enough/very little fat espec saturated.

 

[cwaltond]

Sounds like you are seeing the right person. Make sure the endocrinologist has your complete medical records (esp lab tests and imaging studies) from all the doctors you have seen in the past. This might be important if your symptoms come and go. And make sure you give a complete and accurate history, especially if you use any supplements or other performance enhancing substances. In regards to whether your symptoms are related to training, I think it is safe to say there is not a good consensus in the literature. You can see for yourself by searching pubmed (www.pubmed.com is a nice shortcut) for "overtraining syndrome." You will find recent review articles with titles such as "Does overtraining exist?"

 

[jamesstout]

so the whole idea of overtraining is open to medical debate?
EDIT - it seems there is some evidence but would cortisol rises be short or long term?
"pituitary releasing hormones represent the functional status of an athlete and long-term hypothalamic hormonal and sympathoadrenal downregulation are some of the prominent hormonal signs of prolonged overtraining and performance incompetence syndrome."
New aspects of the hormone and cytokine response to training

 

[cwaltond]

Basically, (and I am not an expert, like I said) the problem is that there have been several studies in endurance athletes of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal endocrine axis in endurance athletes. Some show that cortisol goes up during training, some show that it goes down, and some show no change. Not all studies are created equal, and an expert might have more insight into the quality of the data in each study. My gut instinct is that if this has been studied for 20 years and still it's under debate, there may not be much there. No question, the cortisol goes up acutely while you are exercising - it's the long term hormone effects that are under debate.

EDIT- there is no question that cortisol goes up when you are actually exercising - the debate is about when you are at rest during periods of training or not training.

 

[nwilkes]

its quite possible the xanthochromia is unrelated i think.

you sure it's not xanthoma? they can happen on the hands (esp in the palmar creases) when your lipids are out of whack - which would be the case in cushing's disease. to echo many others, for your own sake stay off the bike until your MD says it's OK to get back on.

 

[jamesstout]

when you say out of whack what exactly do you mean?
its all over my hands and to some extent my feet, i also have very dry almost cracking skin.

 

[terzo rene]

A severe eating disorder would also produce a very similar list of symptoms. Most doctors would not be aware of the high incidence rate in endurance athletes either, particularly in men, and you do admit to a poor diet.

The symptoms you list potentially indicate CNS, liver and kidney involvement which are all potentially very serious so keep after it until you get an answer.

Sudden onset of systemic symptoms with no clear connection or cause can also be the result of poisoning. Came to mind as I was wire brushing an aluminum frame last night. :-?

 

[jamesstout]

just a thought i eat the cores of apples and sometimes get the pips i know they contain minute amounts of cyanide, any relevance?
what should i ask the doctors to check for if it is diet related, the only hting i could think is a lack of fat espec saturated in the diet, i eat lots of furit and veggies and wholegrains with plenty fish/chicken and red meat when my family does.

 

[jamesstout]

it seems my caloriei ntake is just too low i have to have too weeks off and get my bfp above its current 1% level. Fel like a toal prat as this seems to be all my fault. Sorry for wasting your time trying to find a medical problem when it was just me getting my diet badly wrong.