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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought an Tacx indoor smart trainer online from a German website with what looked to be a pretty good reputation. Paid for it via Paypal credit card in early February and received it after 3 weeks, unfortunately DOA. Tacx has been very responsive with emails but unfortunately punts it back to the seller to remedy. The seller has been pretty unhelpful; didn't answer my emails until I gave a deadline for credit card dispute and now say they are waiting to hear back from Tacx, which I think is BS. Tacx has answered all my queries with a real person email within 48 hours.

Anyway, I've never disputed a purchase through Paypal. I suspect it's a process that might take a while. I've have disputed fraudulent transactions with my CC company a couple of times and it has always been very smooth. What does the Lounge recommend?

My original goal was to get a replacement brake unit for the trainer, but now I just want to return the damn thing, get a shipping label and my money back.
 

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What do you mean
Paypal credit card
Isn't it either one or the other?
 

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It's irrelevant how Paypal got the money from you.

Paypal was used to pay the vendor, so you use them to dispute the problem.
 

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1.) I doubt PayPal will do much as you did receive the product. I would go straight to the credit card.
2.) Most likely you will be responsible for return shipping. Ask the vendor for a return authorization, then ship it.
 

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1.) I doubt PayPal will do much as you did receive the product. I would go straight to the credit card.
2.) Most likely you will be responsible for return shipping. Ask the vendor for a return authorization, then ship it.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with both this and @beer.

The CC was not used to purchase the item. The CC was used to transfer cash to Paypal.

To suggest that the CC will help is not realistic.
 

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TACX punting to the seller is *very* common among bike parts toy manufacturers.


OP, are you in the USA? There's a good chance if you are in the USA, you should not have been allowed to buy a TACX trainer from them anyway....and they're having an "oh damn", moment. Most EU merchants refuse to sell any kind of rollers/trainers overseas to USA customers, I suspect because TACX and the like don't want their regional prices undercut.

1.) I doubt PayPal will do much as you did receive the product. I would go straight to the credit card.
2.) Most likely you will be responsible for return shipping. Ask the vendor for a return authorization, then ship it.
Usually PayPal will side with the buyer. Even when they shouldn't. Did the OP receive an item? Yes, but DOA-and the seller is non-responsive in refunding or exchanging. Which is grounds for filing a dispute.
 

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Most merchants will try to do right if there is paypal involvement. Paypal involvement affects the merchants rating, there is abundant buyer protection. Also when you start a paypal dispute everything is kept on paypal's site on the record.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yes I'm in the USA. Never encountered any problem regarding the US thing and when I was researching the seller and trainer, looked to be pretty commonly sold to US and Canada. In fact the seller mentioned that the trainer would come with an EU plug but could easily be adapted to work on US electrons.

The support people from Tacx don't seem to have an issue with the trans-Atlantic sale. I sent a video of the problem, they admitted its a defective brake unit and needs to be replaced. Asked me to contact the shop in Germany, which is where things slowed down.

Bikerjulio, I'm not so sure that the money trail is so clear cut. My credit card invoice shows PayPal as well as the sellers info and I think PP is more likely charging a fee to act as a conduit, but who knows. I'll likely work through PP first as I think they would try to get a solution for both parties whereas I suspect the CC company might just try to put a hammer down.
 

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Bikerjulio, I'm not so sure that the money trail is so clear cut. My credit card invoice shows PayPal as well as the sellers info and I think PP is more likely charging a fee to act as a conduit, but who knows. I'll likely work through PP first as I think they would try to get a solution for both parties whereas I suspect the CC company might just try to put a hammer down.
OK, looks like PP may work differently in the US, than in Canada.

If my CC were to be charged after I had paid using PP it would simply show as a payment to PP.
 

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I'm going to respectfully disagree with both this and @beer.

The CC was not used to purchase the item. The CC was used to transfer cash to Paypal.

To suggest that the CC will help is not realistic.
1.) I agree PayPal is the primary means of payment, and per section 4.2 of buyer protection plan should cover the OP as the item received appears to be "unusable" and presumably was not described as such. https://www.paypalobjects.com/webstatic/en_AT/ua/pdf/buyerprotection.pdf

2.) The protection plan does NOT cover return shipment. That is the responsibility of the buyer.

3.) The credit card company certainly is a party to the transaction and has a vested interest in keeping customers happy. If satisfaction is not reached with PayPal, then the CC company will likely step up to the plate. I am unaware of any exclusions in the CC agreement that would void their protections just because the transaction went through a 3rd party.

At least those were my experiences as an e-tailer.
 

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1.) I agree PayPal is the primary means of payment, and per section 4.2 of buyer protection plan should cover the OP as the item received appears to be "unusable" and presumably was not described as such. https://www.paypalobjects.com/webstatic/en_AT/ua/pdf/buyerprotection.pdf

2.) The protection plan does NOT cover return shipment. That is the responsibility of the buyer.

3.) The credit card company certainly is a party to the transaction and has a vested interest in keeping customers happy. If satisfaction is not reached with PayPal, then the CC company will likely step up to the plate. I am unaware of any exclusions in the CC agreement that would void their protections just because the transaction went through a 3rd party.

At least those were my experiences as an e-tailer.
I look forward to being proven wrong.

It makes absolutely no sense to me that a CC company would want to help out someone who had funneled the payment through PP. But what do I know?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Resolved!

Thought I would post the result:

I went the Paypal dispute route, which basically is a message exchange platform. The bike shop responded quickly and offered a return and eventually offered to reimburse for shipping. There's a 20 or 30 day window in which the dispute can be escalated to claim level when Paypal steps in and figures things out. The trainer arrived a couple of days before this window closed, listed on the USPS tracking as "damaged, held for inspection". I sent a WTF message to the seller and they refunded everything. I think they may have put in a damage claim to get some reimbursement from the postal service. At any rate I got all my money back and new Wahoo trainer from REI is arriving today!
 

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I ordered a Tacx work stand from the very same website which arrived in perfect condition. The savings on expensive items are eye popping. I was going to ship some stuff to an EU country to save on shipping, but that quickly negated the savings (prices are higher in EU).

other tidbits:

1. I tried going the CC route for Paypal payment, my CC sent me to Paypal
2. Paypal had an offer this winter, which I think ran through spring, where they cover the return shipping on 12 items (up to $30 per item). I guess it was meant to spur those not-sure-i-want-this purchases.
3. I've never heard of a Paypal resolution NOT go the buyers way. I sold a laptop to a guy which he BRICKED and broke the DVD to boot. He filed a claim and PPal automatically sided with him and withdrew money from my account.
4. ebay sellers will tell you Paypal disputes are not just, they just side with the buyer almost automatically
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I was a little nervous about buying a big item like this just because of the issue that I had - problem returning. I still think it was worth the try. This Tacx trainer is $900-1100 from US sellers, and $600 from Germany. Big headache returning but worked out OK.

I got a Wahoo Snap today, used a 20% discount coupon from REI, works perfectly out of the box. Of course weather has turned beautiful now.
 
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