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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Another one of these threads...

I have a friend looking at a used Zurich Le Mond from 2002. Beautiful bike. It has a 545 mm effective top tube and 11.9 cm head tube. He is 5'9", probably average proportions for a guy.

Is this in the neighborhood for sizing? That is fairly aggressive compared to what you get now, but it is a beautiful bike: 853 Reynolds and Bontrager light wheels with full ultegra and a new cassette and chain, also both ultegra.

Opinions?
 

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Cycling induced anoesis
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First step, I would suggest your friend go ride the bike and see how it feels to him. But before making a firm offer, ask the seller to bring the bike to a reputable shop for mechanical and fit assessment.

Why I say that is... Proportions matter, but so does flexibility, core strength and rider style. I've seen guys your friends height ride anything from 52's to ~56's.. or 58's. Sizing is arbitrary.

There are lots of beautiful bikes languishing in storage because they didn't fit, so didn't get ridden. Gotta get that part right.
 

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Yea, if he is planning on riding it much, get a bike that fits. It is probably close, but these dimensions & flexiblity are a big issue.
 

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I don't remember zurich's (or any lemond frame) as having "aggressive" geometry. They are classic European road geometry.

By 2002, I think only the top tube and down tubes were 853. Not that it really matters.

As a guess, the frame may be a bit too big for your friend. But, he should ride it.
 

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The 545mm top tube COULD fit his 5'9" frame. I'd like to know his inseam measurement.

Otherwise, he'd probably fit the next LeMond size UP.

Third option: Try THIS sizing chart by respected framebuilder Dave Moulton. You may have to shift some length from the recommended stem length to the top tube length as Dave seems to favor shorter top tubes and longer stems, but I think the chart works well.

You'll see if you look straight across on the chart from 5' 8 3/4" he recommends a 545mm top tube, so you're close. Just try the remainder of the chart instructions.
 

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Cycling induced anoesis
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On a separate but related note, it looks like the OE wheelset on the 2002 Zurich were paired spoke Bonty's (see below). They have a rep for rim cracks at the spoke holes, so if your friend does get so far as to seriously consider the bike (and assuming it still has the OE wheelset), have them checked over thoroughly before making an offer.

2002 LeMond Zurich - BikePedia
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well, the bike fit, but he decided he'd rather have a bike with a taller headtube. Yes, not really 'aggressive' per se, but an 11.9 cm head tube wit 545 top tube is quite short compared to what you would find on a CAAD 8 or Synapse.

The bike itself is in excellent shape, lightly ridden. Wheels look fine, to me. Unless there could be something I can't see?

We have a small cycling community here, and I know the owner. They are not the original owner, but bought it a couple of years ago because they thought they wanted a vintage steel bike, then proceeded to ride it exactly twice. Shrug. A casualty of the N + 1 phenomenon. I'll help my friend find a nice bike. I personally think the CAAD8 would be a better starter bike than the synapse, but I don't really know his budget.

Thanks, all.
 

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Cycling induced anoesis
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Well, the bike fit, but he decided he'd rather have a bike with a taller headtube. Yes, not really 'aggressive' per se, but an 11.9 cm head tube wit 545 top tube is quite short compared to what you would find on a CAAD 8 or Synapse.
Something to keep in mind if your friend uses the Zurich's HT length to compare to others... remember to calculate in the stack height of the non-integrated headset. That effectively lengthens the HTL.

There are lots of choices in the 'endurance' market. Giant Defy, C'Dale CAAD8 & Synapse, among others.

Jamis Ventura line might be worth a look.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Something to keep in mind if your friend uses the Zurich's HT length to compare to others... remember to calculate in the stack height of the non-integrated headset. That effectively lengthens the HTL.

There are lots of choices in the 'endurance' market. Giant Defy, C'Dale CAAD8 & Synapse, among others.

Jamis Ventura line might be worth a look.
I was going to mention Giant. He really needs to test something like a CAAD8 and carbon Synapse to determine what he likes and doesn't like about each. They'll feel and handle differently. He is very fit, but doesn't know much about bikes. He does have a mountain bike, (a Cannondale), that he uses to commute. I should suggest he put Schwalbe Big Apples or Marathons on it.

The only LBC in town carries Jamis. (And, strangely, Colnago!). So that should be easy to test.

I don't know what you mean, the stack height is effectively higher with the headset? The stack (and reach) weren't published in 2002 for LeMond, so doubt he will compare that. He felt like he was reaching too much, but if anything, he could probably size-up, but have a higher HT, and shorter reach.
 

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Cycling induced anoesis
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I was going to mention Giant. He really needs to test something like a CAAD8 and carbon Synapse to determine what he likes and doesn't like about each. They'll feel and handle differently. He is very fit, but doesn't know much about bikes. He does have a mountain bike, (a Cannondale), that he uses to commute. I should suggest he put Schwalbe Big Apples or Marathons on it.
I would strongly suggest that your friend broaden his horizons and test ride a bunch of bikes.. race, endurance, C'dale, but others as well. That, IMO/E is the best way to narrow the field and make an educated decision on what fits/ feels best.

And LBS's matter - for sizing/ fit assistance as well as a post purchase resource for shoes, pedals, accessories...

The only LBC in town carries Jamis. (And, strangely, Colnago!). So that should be easy to test.
Perfect!

I don't know what you mean, the stack height is effectively higher with the headset? The stack (and reach) weren't published in 2002 for LeMond, so doubt he will compare that. He felt like he was reaching too much, but if anything, he could probably size-up, but have a higher HT, and shorter reach.
You're confusing frame stack with headset stack height. Frame stack and reach are what some manufacturers are now including on their geo charts.

What I'm referring to is the height of the non-integrated headset and the HTL. This measurement would be from the top of the top cup to the bottom of the lower cup. On integrated headsets, the races are internal to the head tube, so don't add to HTL.

The feeling of "reaching too much" could be for several reasons, but does point up the importance that your friend consider working with an LBS on sizing. He may just be unaccustomed to a road riding position, but they can figure that out, working one on one with him.

The web is fine for general advice/ guidance and information, but (IMO) it's unwise to try to size someone sight unseen.
 

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He may just be unaccustomed to a road riding position, but they can figure that out, working one on one with him.
That's a very good point, but one difficult to get across sometimes. People sit on an unmoving bike for a few seconds and pronounce it 'uncomfortable' and there's not much one can do to convince them that this may not necessarily be true out on the road.

As to the "too aggressive" notion: the geometry of these old Lemond bikes was based on Lemond's racing experiences. Assuming correct frame sizing, getting the bars up even with the saddle made those old bikes look goofy. Modern road bikes still look like race bikes, but getting the bars up even with the saddle (and the tops of the brake hoods even higher) is easy and doesn't make the bike look strange at first glance.
 

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You're confusing frame stack with headset stack height. Frame stack and reach are what some manufacturers are now including on their geo charts.

What I'm referring to is the height of the non-integrated headset and the HTL. This measurement would be from the top of the top cup to the bottom of the lower cup. On integrated headsets, the races are internal to the head tube, so don't add to HTL.

The feeling of "reaching too much" could be for several reasons, but does point up the importance that your friend consider working with an LBS on sizing. He may just be unaccustomed to a road riding position, but they can figure that out, working one on one with him.

The web is fine for general advice/ guidance and information, but (IMO) it's unwise to try to size someone sight unseen.
Bottom bracket height and the tire clearance area of a fork are also potential factors. Generally that does't vary much between road bikes but can be a big factor if comparing one to a cross bike. In summary, stack is stack. To get the stack measurement measure the stack and ignore the factors that contribute to it because none of them matter individually unless you know ALL the factors and how to calculate using them.

OP, I'd actually GUESS that bike is about right for him. Keep in mind he probably checked the reach without respect to making sure he had the optimal fore aft position of the saddle. I think that bike has a 73 degree seat tube angle so, if so, chances are he wouldn't want/need much set back and who knows how the prior owner had that set.
 

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Shuffleman
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I think that the suggestion to have your friend ride and test multiple bikes is a good one. It sounds like this is his/her first road bike. If that is the case, why not go the new route with an entry level bike. Ultegra is nice but getting a bike that fits is more important. I would recommend going to a lbs store or a Performance Bike and go with an entry level frame and a good basic fitting.
 

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... stack is stack.
The problem with discussion on a segregated part of bike geo (that is invariably affected by other parts) is that most any statement is literally inaccurate. But since the OP seemed to be using the Zurich's HTL to compare to a couple of current C'dales, I wanted to point out that doing so *could* mislead.

Coinciding with Shuffleman's comments, I was trying to nudge the buyer (thru the OP) to visit LBS's where he'll get sizing/ fit assistance, test ride some bikes and (preferably) buy new in his price range. Budget allowing, I think that's a better option for most newb's.
 
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