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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello All,

I am about to purchase an Orbea Mitis 4-3(tripple) or Mitis 3-3. The Mitis 4 has mostly Ultegra components (9spd)and 2 options for wheel sets (Ksyrium equipe or American classic AC350) The Mitis 3-3 has a Campy Centaur groupo (10spd) with Campy Vento G3 wheels. This will be my fist Modern roadbike, so I have no biases between shimano or Campy. Whichever I ultimately choose will be new to me anyway. One thing I noticed is the Mitis 3-3 bike is actually 11.2oz heavier according to the spec in the catalog even though they share the same frame. The Vento wheelset is 5.83 oz heavier than the Ksyrium. I am too heavy for the American classic option. The remaining 6oz of weight between the M4 and M3 must be the differnce between the extra cog and general campy grupo weight. The difference in cost to upgrade to the Mitis3 from the Mitis 4 is only $100 more, so price is not an issue in this choice. Please take a look at the links to the bike builds at the bottom of this page for other information on the M4 and M3.

Please also consider some of my specs in your decision to make your reccomendation. I am 6'4" tall and currently 245lbs. My goal weight is 210lbs. I am buying a road bike to gain fitness, lose weight and increase my stamina for when I ride my mountain bike. Most of my riding will be medium to long rides with many hills at a later date. I live in a relatively hilly area. I am concerned which wheelset will be able to handle someone of my size. I am not too concerned with overall bike weight, but the extra 6oz of rotational weight on the campy wheels may be an issue. I like the campy's ability to trim the front derailer, but I am concerned shifting may be difficult when on the drops due to one shift lever being located on the side of the shift/brake housing. Can this lever be reached with a thumb when on the drops? Do I need to shift while on the drops anyway? The campy grupo matches the blue color sheme better than the ultegra, but this is just an observation and not that important.

Orbea links:

Mitis 4-3: http://www.orbea-usa.com/Bikes.php?id=9 (dissregard the fact that the specs do not mention its a tripple, that is a mistake.

Mitis 3-3: http://www.orbea-usa.com/Bikes.php?id=7

Any help will be greatly appreciated,

Marc Webster
 

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Arrogant roadie.....
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At 245 lbs, you're gonna kill any set of low-spoke wheels in no time at all. Few of those wheels are built for people heavier than 180 lbs. At your elevated mass, counting grams on a wheelset is nothing short of foolish. Possibly even reckless. Maybe even suicidal. Look for a bike with good old 32 or 36 spoke wheels.

Even if you get down to 210 lbs, you're still to big for 'poseur' wheels.
 

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classiquesklassieker
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Campy shifting, counting weights

Marc, the Campy thumb shifter can comfortably be used from the drops, perhaps
with little adjustment to the size/shape of your hands. I like the fact that you can
shift almost all the way across the gears with the thumb shifters. I have a Centaur
gruppo on my bike and it has been very reliable after 2 years of riding hard in pothole
wintry mix central. Some people such as my roommate prefer the smaller grip of the
Ultegra shifter. Another friend has been so hooked on Campy shifters he uses it on
any bike he owns, regardless on whether the rest of the bike is Campy or Ultegra.

Now note that you can't manufacture complete bikes that precisely. They're just
not going to built up to the exact specs given in the catalogs. Plus, I agree with
Dave that you should consider a more sturdy set of wheels. This is not just because
of your weight, but it's just for practical considerations. Are you willing to true your
wheels once a week? Once every 2 weeks? I use 32-spoke Mavic Open Pros on
Campy Record hubs and I can't be happier. They're not as light as my friends' wheels
but I only have to true them 3-4 times a year, and I don't worry about riding over potholes
as much as they do.

Anyways, congratulations on deciding on your pursuit, I'm sure you will find that it is
very addictive!
 

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Second all previous comments

I just got some Mavix CXP 33s, 32 spokes with Chorus hubs and on my third ride ran my front wheel into a grate at about 15 mph, still true with no damage. If you are not racing, go with a hearty set of wheels. I am 200 lbs and would not consider anything less than a 32 spoke.

I find the Campy shifters very easy to use from the hoods and the drops, I have been riding these for a month and a half. From the drops you just pull down with your thumb. I am very biased towards Campy, so much so that I would tell you to buy it if you can afford it. You should just test both and see what you like.
 

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Hi Marc,

I started out with an Ultegra Grouppo and now ride with a mirage set! I am currently going to build my next bike on a Chorus so that tells you what I think between Shimano and Campy.

Having said that though, I think the Ultegra groupo is a better value than the Centaur. I would personally recommend you go with Ultegra as you said it was only $100 more. There is nothing to fault between both groupsets. However, think about this:

The Ultegra groupset is lighter, I think I prefer the cranks as they were stiffer, and the Vento wheels in my opinion just suck.... sorry to those who own them. If you don't mind the look of cables sticking out from your shifters, then go with Ultegra. The brifters are easier to operated but again having said that, once you are used to them, you will find the efficiency of Campy shifting to be a real turn on! Serious. Then again, most beginners find shimano more comfortable. I have no problems with the thumb shifters, in fact I love it because I think it is better in the long run.

I think a good analogy is where these groups were conceived, one is Italian, one is Japanese, so one rides like a Ferrari and another likea Lexus. Just depends what kinda guy you are.

You have to take into consideration what you are going to do in the future as well, are you staying with 9sp or are you going to upgrade one day to 10sp. I would still go for Ultegra if I were a beginner taking up road biking.

Regards,
Sean
 

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Orbea makes a nice bike...

you don't hear much about them & I only found out 'cause an Orbea shop opened up down the street from my house. They really have some sweet looking bikes.............
I got ultegra on my bike & it works great...don't know about the campy. Enjoy your new Orbea.
 

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Every little counts...
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Go with Centaur, it really is quite superior.

Your dealer should be able to trade the Venot wheels for some Centaur hubs hand-built 3X, 36s. You will love it!
 

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Orbea bikes are sweet. I would personally go with the Ultegra for the stiffness of the cranks. I am a big rider at 185 lbs and I can flex my Ultegra with no prblem. Plus since you probably won't be racing a couple grams here and there is no big deal. Have fun with that Orbea.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Still a tough decision!

Argh,

I knew I would get varried answers to this question, but now I am more informed and possibly even more confused. However, I do appreciate all of the replies as it has given me much more insight to my dillemna. I know that the wheel strength will be my most limiting factor, I wish I was lighter LOL! I am unsure if my dealer is able to make a wheel change since the bikes are shipped direct from orbea usa pre boxed and these are my options. The store I am ordering from is a Triathalon and running store and does not have a lot of bike components, but rather complete bikes. I have selected this store due to the fact that they were willing to work with the price a bit and I can get the 2 bikes about $400.00 less each than at the other stores that carry orbea. However, I will ask if they can do a swap, but the wheels that they did have on the walls are very light weight carbon zipp wheelsets and chances are the ones on the orbea I will be buying will be the heaviest they have. I did speak with a person at orbea USA (Justin) and he himself is 6'4" and around 200 lbs. He was the one that told me not to choose the american classics and that the ksyrium equipes would be fine. I did not mention the Vento wheels in the Mitis 3 at that time because I did not think I could afford the jump in price to the campy equiped Mitis 3.

From what I have Gathered from the posts above, is that the ultegra grupo is lighter and the crankset is more robust and stiffer. These are definately things I need to considder. However, on the Mitis 3 Campy side ($100 more than the ultegra mitis 4) I get 30 speeds, a heavier groupset and wheels but the cables are routed cleaner, the color scheme matches the bike better than ultegra and it is just different than the Shimano. I like being different since I don't see too many orbeas around me. This is why I ride a Kona mountain bike as I almost never see those as well. I have read the reviews about the Vento G3 wheels on this site and from what I gather there are quite a few large riders on them and they seem to hold up to rough roads. On the downside, most people who reviewed them did complain about their weight (2000 grams combined) and climbing ability.

If the Kysrium wheels will work, I am starting to lean towards Ultegra based on the fact that it is lighter and the crankset is stiffer. Is this statement accurate? It's also the cheaper option.

Another option is to buy a frame only and a build kit. It will most definately be mor expensive and I would like to avoid it but it may be my best bet. Will shimano WH-R540 wheels work? They have a low spoke count that scares me but I found a good deal on an ultegra build kit that includes these wheels.

Thanks again to all who replied and it is people like you who take the time to help newbies like myself that makes it easier to make the right decisions a bit easier.

Still open to any other suggestions,

Marc Webster
 

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I use conventioanl wheels on all my bikes. I like their classic simplicity. I have a friend at 200+ pounds and his Ksyriums are doing fine.

The Centaur/Ultegra issue.... I don't think crank stiffness is a real issue. The Shimano splined spindle is superior to the tapered Campy spindle, but us mere mortals will not notice a stiffness difference.

The weight could be a factor, but I'd say consider that against what the 10th Centaur cog will do for you. In many situations, the Campy 10th cog occurs in the middle of the cluster (16t cog) and fills an otherwise big step between 15t & 17t. If you doubt it, calculate the gear ratios for a whole cluster to see how relatively big the 15-to-17 step is.

Another issue to consider is what chainrings wo use with your triple set-up. I did not like the 42t ring on the Campy 53-42-30 triple, I reverted back to a 53/39 double. The Shimano triple is 53-39-30, I think, which I preferred. Alternatively, Centaur might have a 50-39-30 triple that might work for you.

Good luck.
 

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Nice bike - go with Campagnolo!

Well, you can't go wrong with either, but I like Campy for many reasons, not the least of which it's 10 speed and the Ultegra is not. In probably a years time, Ultegra 10 will come out, and your groupset will be somewhat "dated".

Here are some other thoughts:

The Campy 13-29 cassette is an excellent choice for gearing for hills in leiu of a triple, and is lighter.

Most (all?) of the weight difference between Ultegra and Centaur can be made up by replacing the really heavy Centaur BB with a lighter one (eg FSA).

If you like, in the future Centaur can easily be upgraded to Chorus or Record, but upgrading Ultegra to DA would be tougher because of 9sp vs 10sp.

In terms of comfort, use, etc, this is mostly subjective, but FWIW I prefer Campy. I think Campy shifts more naturally from the hoods and Shimano from the drops, but both are fine.

I have Centaur on my bike and find that the drivetrain lasts very long, even though I ride a lot in the rain here in Vancouver. I replaced my first chain after 5000km, and only because I felt like I should.

Other stuff like hidden cables and ability to trim front derailleur is nice too.

I do agree with what others have said in that at your weight you should probably have regular wheels with 32 spokes. They can be built strong, light, and cheap. My friend is 6'3" and about 225lbs and has no troubles with Mavic Open Pro, Chorus hubs, and 32 DB spokes (except for the Open Pro "click"). If you use standard wheels, the Centaur hubs are way lighter that the Ultegra ones.

Remember that a good shop will be willing to make substitutions (within reason).

A local shop here has Orbeas and they look really good. Have fun with your new bike.
 

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lyleseven
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Centaur...

hans said:
Well, you can't go wrong with either, but I like Campy for many reasons, not the least of which it's 10 speed and the Ultegra is not. In probably a years time, Ultegra 10 will come out, and your groupset will be somewhat "dated".

You can shift the campy from the drops provided you do not have deep drops. I found it difficult to do on my Easton handlebars and very convenient on my Dedas which didn't have the deeper drops.

As for the weight difference, you won't notice it, trust me. Unless you are racing the stiffness will not be a significant issue either. I have had both and I think the campy wears better. Good luck whichever you chose.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
info greatly appreciated

Thanks again to all who have applied. I will be giving the advice some thought today and placing my order for my bike tomorrow. I am so excited, if only my wife knew just how much this thing will cost she'd freak! Hopefully she will benefit from the new thinner me in a few months LOL. Now I need to get some pedals and shoes. Any Advice. I think I will be getting some speedplay pedals but as for the shoes unsure. Any brands I should stay away from? AXO/661 warehouse is about a block from me and I can get some at cost from a freind who is an employee, but I think I remember that they did not fit me so well. I have a pair of northwave snowboard boots that I love and they have bike shoes as well. So many choices, this is great.

Best regards,

Marc Webster
 

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Pedals & shoes

As an avowed Fred, I really like my Speedplay Frog pedals. I have them on all my road bikes. But it means I have MTB shoes, but I like the ability to walk with relative ease.

As for shoes, whatever is comfortable and fits well in your price range. I like my fancy Sidi shoes, but my old Shimanos do a fine job too. It all comes down to fit, fit, fit... (once you decide whether to go road or MTB pedals/shoes)
 

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Roadbikereview member
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thrmaln said:
Thanks again to all who have applied. I will be giving the advice some thought today and placing my order for my bike tomorrow. I am so excited, if only my wife knew just how much this thing will cost she'd freak! Hopefully she will benefit from the new thinner me in a few months LOL. Now I need to get some pedals and shoes. Any Advice. I think I will be getting some speedplay pedals but as for the shoes unsure. Any brands I should stay away from? AXO/661 warehouse is about a block from me and I can get some at cost from a freind who is an employee, but I think I remember that they did not fit me so well. I have a pair of northwave snowboard boots that I love and they have bike shoes as well. So many choices, this is great.

Best regards,

Marc Webster
Good choice of bike, I seen some good looking Obea bikes. My choice for pedals are Speedplays and shoes are Sidi Genius 4
Good luck in your choices
Rick
 

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Retro grouch point of view

How does a beginning 6'4" 245 fitness rider get talked into a bike like this? This bike is as wrong for you as a bike could be. This is a racing bike for highly fit racers. You are not a racer. You'll most likely have back, neck and shoulder pain if you ride this bike. Please seriously consider something like a Rivendell Redwood. It will be more comfortable, more durable, and desgined for a big man.

You'd be even be bettter off on a $500 comfort bike than on this racing machine.
 

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I'd say go with Centaur personally. but...

you'll have to make your own choice, I'd say, based on actual test ride. Besides that anything more I can say will not add anything to this debate; already too much have been said and nothing much has been resulted.
 

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Every little counts...
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True. The original poster spoke of so many ounce differences in components, bikes, and wheels. From your goal weight, 1 pound is .5% of total. You won't notice anything. You will notice broken spokes very quickly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Now I'm concerned!

Hello All,

Thanks again for the advice. Continental and Sjomi have me wondering if this is really what I want. But sadly it really is, but if it's really not for me I will move towards something else. However, please read further. While I may be considdered a beginner in road riding, I have been mountain biking for about 5 years pretty heavilly. Before mountain biking, I use to ride an old Nishiki road bike on a 14 mile round trip every other day on my lunch break (3 days a week) with friends from work as well as some riding on weekends. I miss the road riding so much, I have decided to get a modern bike which has led me to this forum. Yes my main goal is fitness and increased staminna for mountain biking, but sprinting around with friends will be a close second. I want to buy a bike that may be a bit overkill that I can grow into rather than need to purchase another when I outgrow the capability of a beginner bike. my hopes is whatever I buy, will have a nice enough frame that will last a long time and my be upgraded as technology changes in the distant future. My price range is 2K and the mitis3-3 fits the bill at $1899.00. I have been speaking with Justin at Orbea USA who is close to my size (he's 6'4 and around 200 lbs). I have been very up front with him and voiced my concerns regarding my weight and the standard specced out components. At first he steered me towards the marmolada, but I wanted a tripple and a frame that was not straight gage tubing so I decided on the mitis. He has assured me I will be fine. However, I do very much value Continentals advice and the fork issue Sjomi mentions has me worried. I turned down a scattante all carbon (supergo) bike based on the advice of a large rider who has issues with the weyless fork.

So where do I go now? I'll look into the bikes continental mentioned as well as my second choice of a Specialized Roubaix Elite. I liked the Roubaix elite a lot, but the cost was very close to the Mitis3 and the roubaix comes with RW-540 wheels with a very low spoke count and I am concerned with wheel strength. The Roubaix (model below elite) is nice, and the wheels look strong, but it is specced out in 105 and I am trying to purchase something that is at least mostly ultegra.

Thankfully I have not placed my order, and I may give the roubaix another look tomorrow.

Best regards,

Marc Webster
 

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I agree with Continental and Dave Stohler. You're a Clydesdale (like me) and most mfgs don't make frames for us. Our weight and size put us on the outer edge of the frame demand bell curve, making our choices slim. There are only a few mfgs that build heavy duty frames for us (just a few: Rivendale, Viner, Cannondale XL, Cinelli, various custom shops...lots of lugged frames). Most of these mfgs measure their frames CtC instead of CtT and the frames are heavy - and strong.

Orbea makes great frames - loved the Spanish guys in the TDF - but those guys are tiny compared to you. I'd totally rethink your frame choice and get a better handle on what size you need (60cm Center to Virtual Top is probably too small for you). Also overextended carbon seat posts don't bend, they fail catastrophically.
 
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