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Formerly known as gotj
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
[soapboax]

Sorry for the rant, but this issue really gets me. More often than not, ebay sellers will not leave you feedback until you leave them positive feedback. This undermines the whole purpose of feeback, b/c it makes buyers reluctant to leave negative feedback in fear of retaliation (esp. b/c buyers usually have much less feedback, so one negative has a stronger effect on the total percentage).

Buyers' only obligation is prompt payment and courteous communication, if any. That's it. And that always takes place before shipment. There's no legitimate reason for sellers to wait for the buyer to leave feedback before leaving feedback for the buyer.

I'm sure there are some buyers out there who leave unfair negatives, and that some good sellers like to protect themselves against that.

But I think the ebay system should require sellers to leave feedback before a buyer can.

[/soapbox]

There, I feel better now :)

Edit: I see now I've ranted about this before, on someone else's thread. I was inspired to post this after receiving a "leave us feedback and we'll do the same" email from a seller. Please excuse the repetition, and feel free to ignore :cool:
 

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As a buyer I understand your pain.

As a seller on eBay, please consider that a 1 dollar item a customer is not happy with, can lead in a negative feedback, which in-turn can cause me so much more then 1 dollar in lost business.

Why would I leave feedback first, if I didn't know you were happy with the product?

What if you burned me? Trust me when I say I have delt with some very weird buyers on Ebay. Some have been frauds trying to swindle me out of my hard earned profits.

Ok now I've stepped off your soap box too. :)
 

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I believe it is the buyers obligation to leave feed back first. This says that the buyer has recieved the product in a timely fashion and it is as described. If I left a feed back saying that some one was the best A++++ buyer ever before they ever recieve their item I would be an idiot. What if the Item gets damaged or lost in the mail, or the buyer does not believe the item to be what was described, we can now resolve the issue before any feedback is left. So to summerize when I buy, I leave a feedback to say everything is a ok and when I sell, I leave a feedback to confirm that everthing with the buyer is a ok.
 

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You're both right

I agree with both points. Yes it does defeat the purpose of feedback however one must protect his ebay rating. I only occassionally sell things on ebay so if the person was polite and paid quickly than I leave a positive feedback. There are a lot of swindlers on ebay but there is also a lot of good people. Recently I had a issue with a product I bought, I had'nt received it after several weeks. I tried emailing the seller with no response, so I filed with Paypal. Shortly thereafter the seller sent an email appologizing saying he had a computer failure losing all records. He made good so I left him a positive feedback. In response he left some very nice remarks.
I don't think ebay anticipated the amount of companies doing business on ebay when the came up with the feedback system. As a result one must protect his rating. As Mr. Spock says it comes back to money.

Matt
 

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Jeffreyg is right. As a seller, it is irresponsible to leave feedback until you know the buyer has received the item and is happy with it. As a seller, I always tell the buyer, "Please e-mail me when you get the item to make sure everything is OK with it." If I get the "all OK" e-mail, I leave feedback immediately. If I don't, I don't.

I sold a frame on eBay a few months ago to a buyer with little feedback--an eBay newbie. I got a little nervous when the guy e-mailed me immediately saying he wanted the frame right away, he wanted to know exactly when it would arrive, etc. My policy is to ship two business days after I receive payment. After two days, he e-mailed me demanding the tracking number and threatening to report me to eBay.

I asked him to calm down and told him the frame was going out that day. I e-mailed the tracking number that night and, naturally, the number wasn't in the system yet. He freaked and threatened to report me again, telling me he needed to know exactly when it would arrive. By the next morning, the tracking number was in the system, and I saw that he signed for it a few days later.

But he never left me feedback and I never left him feedback. What feedback would I leave for him? I don't consider it a positive experience. For a week after the sale I was worried he'd come back to me with something like, "There's a 2mm scratch that you didn't photograph in your listing!"
 

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Chili hed & old bike fixr
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Wait a minute there, mister

To the original poster.
I sell a fair amount of stuff on Ebay from a big variety of categories. I try to list things fairly, so I do a lot of research before listing an item. This includes reading feedback, a lot of feedback. There are a bunch of wackos out there that take great pleasure in jacking a seller around. I always put in my listing "If you want feedback, leave feedback" This gives a buyer some small incentive to contact me is they are unhappy with the transaction. That way I get the opportunity to rectify the situation, usually with a complete refund if the problem is something that I missed or overlooked. Otherwise I would probably see a big negative that would kill my 100% rating. As a buyer, I always leave positive feedback promptly and will continue to do so untill I run into a true shyster that will not work with me after I contact them. It is the 1%ers that mess it up for the 99%. This method has worked for me, and I am sticking with it until it stops.
 

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Formerly known as gotj
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I know there are wackos out there

I know there are wacko buyers (just like sellers) out there, but I still think it's wrong to require buyers to leave feedback first. In essence, that requires a buyer to leave positive feedback in order to receive it. This debases the entire notion of feedback, b/c buyers are afraid to leave negative feedback, even if it is deserved. They're going to get hit with retaliatory negative feedback every time, even if they did nothing whatsoever wrong. Thus, future buyers won't know about such problems b/c of the positive feedback left (or no feedback at all).

Why is it a requirement that a buyer be satisfied wth a product in order to receive positive feedback?

I'm sure all you sellers here are great, and I'd be happy to buy from you. The truth of the matter is that most folks here are like those of us who have contributed to this thread: conscientious buyers and sellers (and I've been both) with perfect feedback ratings.

But that doesn't mean the system isn't messed up.
 

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SkiDiver said:
[soapboax]

Buyers' only obligation is prompt payment and courteous communication, if any. That's it. And that always takes place before shipment. There's no legitimate reason for sellers to wait for the buyer to leave feedback before leaving feedback for the buyer.
[/soapbox]
Exactly. When I first started using eBay this never seemed to happen. I've been noticing it a lot more lately.
 

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SkiDyver,

It is very common practive for eBay sellers to wait for a buyer's feedback first. I have been on eBay since 2001 and didn't learn this until I obtained 3 different books from 3 different authors on eBay selling practices. In all 3 books, it was highly recommended to await a buyer's feedback. This is 'not' holding your feedback hostage. This is good practice for several reasons from a seller's perspective which include some of the reasons mentioned above. It is something that is excercised by a majority of seasoned eBay sellers and is discussed and explained on the eBay seller's forum community also.

I got burned recently when selling an item on eBay -- I was 100% until this happened. The buyer was totally unhappy with item and ended up NOT following or abiding by our agreement to resolve the issue ... and this was AFTER I had not only refunded the product purchase price, but also the original shipping which is NOT part of my return policy. If I had already left positive feedback for her upon payment ... then the real feedback for her as a buyer of one of my products would not have been able to be recorded.

There are pros and cons to all policies and guidelines. I think, overall, this one works in a large majority of cases.
 

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Formerly known as gotj
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm not saying it's uncommon

In fact, I'm saying it's increasingly common, as others have noted.

And I also understand how it protects sellers from bad buyers.

But it does hold buyers' feedback hostage, most definitely. And as a conscientious buyer, I resent it (just as you conscientious sellers resent bad buyers, etc.).

The system is messed up.
 

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SkiDiver said:
In fact, I'm saying it's increasingly common, as others have noted.

And I also understand how it protects sellers from bad buyers.

But it does hold buyers' feedback hostage, most definitely. And as a conscientious buyer, I resent it (just as you conscientious sellers resent bad buyers, etc.).

The system is messed up.
I agree. The buyer was the first to complete their part of the transaction, the seller received payment, so the seller should leave feedback saying so. Once the product is received the buyer should reciprocate. Of course ebay is far from perfect.

Lou.
 

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buyer-leaves-first is reasonable.

I'm not sure how on-topic this is, though it would get Pwn3d in the lounge...

I occasionally buy things, and occasionally sell things, on eBay. In both instances, I use the "buyer-leaves-first" principle.

This has become pretty much the general rule, without eBay suggesting or endorsing it, for a reason.

"Buyers' only obligation is prompt payment and courteous communication, if any," says Skidiver. I feel that feedback is part of that courtesy. It doesn't take much effort.

I agree pretty much with Jeff G, too A buyer leaving feedback signifies that the transaction is closed in a satisfactory manner. As far as hostage-holding? It's a pretty weak type of hostage.

Ebay will remove feedback that is an absolute lie ("did not pay" when you can prove you did). There is potential for some abuse either way you stack it, but when you see a seller that sells crap, and has just 2 or 3 feedbacks saying so, I'll likely not buy from them.

Buyer feedback has a lot less "oomph" now that 90% of all payments or something are through paypal. If I see a buyer whose feedback is positive, positive, positive, Negative: "TOO MUCH COMPLAINT!!!!" (which I have seen,) then we know what the story is, dont' we?

Not frequently, but more than once, buyers have attempted to ask for additional discounts or freebies after winning an item. In those cases, having their feedback as a "hostage," as you say, has been the only leverage I've had as a seller. It's always worked out, and my feedback is 100% positive.

Any system has gaps, but I think it runs just fine.
 
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