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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been riding a 1972 Puegeot that I bought new. In the mid 80's I upgraded the drive train with Zues (Campy) and lowered the mass of the wheels to rigida. This has given me a very nice ride over the years but recently, I have been wonodering about the new technology. Over the last couple of weeks I have been doing a 40 mile ride and avereaged about 15 mph and used about 74.1 watts over the mid third of that course. Yesterday, I brought home a 2006 Pinarello Galileo Ultegra on loan from my LBS. The frame is aluminum with carbon stays and fork. On the scales the bike weighed 19.5 pounds - a drop of 5.5 pounds from my Peugeot. After changing out the seat and doing some fine adjustments for seat height and set back, this morning, I started off on my 40 mile ride. The results: average speed came out to 21.1mph and the watts jumped to 161.7. Now I will tell you that I came up on a really good rider and I used him to help push me. Still, my Peugeot wouldn't have been able to keep up with the guy. We hit top speeds in the high 20's. Reasons for the improvement.
1. since the course is close to flat, the effect of the 5.5 lbs are minimal. The gearing is really diferent. The Peugeot has a 53/15 where the Pinarello is 53/12. The other big factor, and the main reason for my looking, the components on the Peugeot have seen better days and there is quite a bit of resistance
2. AS I have said, I have been looking and was very biased about aluminum frames. We all have heard how stiff and uncomfortable they are on a long rides. Well, on my way home, I was thinking about what a sweet ride it had been. None of my complaints had anything to do with the frame. It was very responsive and quick, yet the ride was very smooth. The only issue was the front end. I think this is a result of the 120mm stem placing too much weight ahead of the fork. (If I can fix the complaints, I will buy it).
3. What I didn't like. The drive train. Eventually, this first issue would disappear but today it was a royal P-I-T-A. On the left side, you press the silver shifter and the bike goes faster, the black shifter and the bike goes slower. On the right side, it is exactly the opposite. The other aspect that I found troubling was that if I was on the 53 the drve train rattled if I was > than 17 on the back. Whether or not this is an adjustment problem I am not sure. I also got my self caught, not infrequently down shifting the back then the front only to find I had no power whatsoever. With the 10 speed Peugeot, I know by the position of the levers what gears I am going to be in. So there will be a learing curve with the new stuff.
Conclusion: The Galaleo is a very nice ride and frame. It is high end perfromance at a very nice $2200.00 MSRP. But I will have to have some improvements to buy it. Stamp
 

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After a couple of days, you'll be completely used to the Ultegra stuff, and won't give it a second thought. I think it may feel strange to you, because it's so completely different from what you've been using.
 

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stamp adams said:
...used about 74.1 watts over the mid third of that course. ....... The results: average speed came out to 21.1mph and the watts jumped to 161.7. ......

....1. since the course is close to flat, the effect of the 5.5 lbs are minimal. The gearing is really diferent. The Peugeot has a 53/15 where the Pinarello is 53/12. The other big factor, and the main reason for my looking, the components on the Peugeot have seen better days and there is quite a bit of resistance.....

...3. What I didn't like. The drive train. Eventually, this first issue would disappear but today it was a royal P-I-T-A. On the left side, you press the silver shifter and the bike goes faster, the black shifter and the bike goes slower. On the right side, it is exactly the opposite. .... With the 10 speed Peugeot, I know by the position of the levers what gears I am going to be in. .....
Where are you getting the watts info from for just a portion of the ride? Calculated based on average speed blah blah blah or do they both happen to have a meter installed?

IMO there is no way in H3ll that the bike made a 6+ MPH difference. Unless you haven't pumped up you tires on the Puegeot for quite some time.


It's been a while since I've ridden a down tube shift bike but If I recall correctly the shifter are opposite as to which one makes you go "faster" on them as well. It is all dependant on which way the derailler spring pulls. They are set up so that the spring does the work when moving from larger to smaller cogs/chainrings. Some MTB rears are opposite.

Get the bike if you like it but there is no way you will increase your average speed by 33% because of it.
 

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You win my permission to ride whatever the you WANT after cruising around on a Peugeot for THIRTY SOMETHING YEARS!

That said, the speed difference can't all be about the bike. As you say, on the flats, weight matters little, and 2 standard road bikes' aerodynamics are relatively similar. My race bike is weighs 18 lbs. I have an '80's, steel, 63-gear-inch fixed gear training bike. It has fenders, tougher tyres, etc., that weighs ~24 lbs. When I'm on the flats at an "endurance" pace, the race bike is MAYBE .5 mph faster. I don't even notice it, apart from that I can coast on the race bike if I want!

My guess is that your cool new bike, and the other rider you mention, inspired you to push harder than you usually do. Drafting probably helped a little too. About the only thing your new bike would've done to make you faster is be SLIGHTLY more aero (wheels, probably, carbon fork), and the new, perfectly clean drivetrain might have less resistance (this wouldn't be much, presuming you maintained your Peugeot well.)

Regardless, enjoy your new ride! Those Pinarellos are pretty, wherever they are built.

PS -- The "silver shifter / black shifter" thing won't exist if you have CAMPY brifters! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I am happy that you are puzzled by this increase too. Blew my sneakers off and tore my theory up. One reason I took the bike out was to prove to myself that it would not make much of a difference (and I agree that it shouldn't have). Here is the data. The course is the same so the distance, as long as I use the same distance (9.2 miles) in my calculations doesn't matter. Nor does change in elevations, because let's face it, all courses go up and down. (Although weight is not a factor in watt output on level ground, it is a significant factor as slope increases). So maybe the course is more hilly than I think.

Now, I have a stop watch and I have a distance. From the simple rate=distance/time I get and average mph for the course.

Peugeot = 15 mph. Conditions, a bit windy. Air density is unknown.
Pinarello = 21.1 mph. Conditions, calm.

Peugeot = 74 watts
Pinarello = 161 watts. (calculated from analytic cycling.com)

Now, known variables: Peugeot (pinarello). best gearing 53/15 (53/12). crank 172.5 (175). Wheels 27 x 1.25 (700 x ?). tires Continental Super Sport (?). weight X (X-5.5 lbs).

Unknown variables: effort, changes in slope, inherent resistance in the Peugeot v the Pinarello, effect of wind, air density, other.

Discussion. The biggest issue here is the watts. The difference suggests that I simply worked a lot harder on the Pinarello than I did on the Peugeot. But the issue that I am wondering about is if we assume the effort is near the same, then for the Peugeot I am working really hard for a net of 72 watts. That is, there are a lot watts being lost somewhere. Head wind, resistance of the tires on the ground, flexibility of the old frame, resistance in the drive train and wheels. I will tell you, on flat surface, I feel like I am working as hard or more at 53/21 on the Peugeot as I am at 53/ 13 on the Pinarello (same day same conditions).

So what are your thoughts about all this. I will admit I was more tired after the Pinarello ride than I was with the Peugeot ride, so I did work harder, but not more than twice as hard. I went from 172.5 lbs before the ride (40 miles) to 168.5 lbs on the Peugeot ride and from 173.5 to 168.5 lbs on the Pinarello ride. Yes, yes I know, I have to get better at hydration, but I think it is a good indicator of the amount of work being done. Then again, maybe it is all grearing. Maybe it is all just that I can go a lot faster at 53/12 than I can at 53/15. Thus allowing my top speed to be significantly higher and therefore my average speed to be higher.
 

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Your average speed could have been increased due to bearings. How long has it been since you put in a new BB and repacked/rebuilt the hubs on the Puegot? If it's been a while, I'm sure you're getting quite a bit of resistance from the friction in those areas. With a brand new bike, everything will be lubed, greased, and adjusted to spec.

As for the front der. rubbing...well...that's just ShimaNO. You've just experienced one of my loves for Campy; adjustable front der.

TB
 

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stamp adams said:
I am happy that you are puzzled by this increase too. Blew my sneakers off and tore my theory up. One reason I took the bike out was to prove to myself that it would not make much of a difference (and I agree that it shouldn't have). Here is the data. The course is the same so the distance, as long as I use the same distance (9.2 miles) in my calculations doesn't matter. Nor does change in elevations, because let's face it, all courses go up and down. (Although weight is not a factor in watt output on level ground, it is a significant factor as slope increases). So maybe the course is more hilly than I think.

Now, I have a stop watch and I have a distance. From the simple rate=distance/time I get and average mph for the course.

Peugeot = 15 mph. Conditions, a bit windy. Air density is unknown.
Pinarello = 21.1 mph. Conditions, calm.

Peugeot = 74 watts
Pinarello = 161 watts. (calculated from analytic cycling.com)

Now, known variables: Peugeot (pinarello). best gearing 53/15 (53/12). crank 172.5 (175). Wheels 27 x 1.25 (700 x ?). tires Continental Super Sport (?). weight X (X-5.5 lbs).

Unknown variables: effort, changes in slope, inherent resistance in the Peugeot v the Pinarello, effect of wind, air density, other.

Discussion. The biggest issue here is the watts. The difference suggests that I simply worked a lot harder on the Pinarello than I did on the Peugeot. But the issue that I am wondering about is if we assume the effort is near the same, then for the Peugeot I am working really hard for a net of 72 watts. That is, there are a lot watts being lost somewhere. Head wind, resistance of the tires on the ground, flexibility of the old frame, resistance in the drive train and wheels. I will tell you, on flat surface, I feel like I am working as hard or more at 53/21 on the Peugeot as I am at 53/ 13 on the Pinarello (same day same conditions).

So what are your thoughts about all this. I will admit I was more tired after the Pinarello ride than I was with the Peugeot ride, so I did work harder, but not more than twice as hard. I went from 172.5 lbs before the ride (40 miles) to 168.5 lbs on the Peugeot ride and from 173.5 to 168.5 lbs on the Pinarello ride. Yes, yes I know, I have to get better at hydration, but I think it is a good indicator of the amount of work being done. Then again, maybe it is all grearing. Maybe it is all just that I can go a lot faster at 53/12 than I can at 53/15. Thus allowing my top speed to be significantly higher and therefore my average speed to be higher.
I guess your math proves it! If I were you I would save up for some real high dollar race bike like a C50 or a Meivici and plan on riding in the tour next year.
 
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