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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First let me explain this is not a Campy vs Shimano vs SRAM. I am planning a new build. The group is going to be new but the bike is an old friend. It has an English threaded BB, 1" threaded fork and is Reynolds 531. So I am looking for a group that won't be obsolete in 2 years. I ditched my Campy 8 speed for 10 and got my use out of it. At this stage I don't care what name is on the parts.

Campagnolo was always my first choice. The shifters and most small parts were available and it was easy to rebuild. When the went from the Ergo to Ultra/Power shift all that changed. Now they have 2 crank standards and 2 11 speed shifters. Plus they went from the 5 arm to a 4 arm and who knows what it's compatible with.

Shimano always impressed me because any indexed group from 6 - 10 speed had the same actuation ratio. Even the MTB rear derailleurs up to 9 speed worked with a road rear shifter. Please don't mention early DA. I think we all know they were different. Now we have 10 speed MTB and 11 speed road. Plus 10 speed Tiagra uses the same actuation ration as the 11 speed, so they say.

I can's say too much about SRAM because I've never used it.

Then we have the shift away from triples to CT double to 1 x 11. Add to that disc brakes, hydraulic and mechanical. Almost forgot the electric groups. Is it safe to buy now? Will parts be available in 2 years? Technology is moving so fast my head is spinning. What are the rest of you doing as far as investing in a group?
 

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First let me explain this is not a Campy vs Shimano vs SRAM. I am planning a new build. The group is going to be new but the bike is an old friend. It has an English threaded BB, 1" threaded fork and is Reynolds 531. So I am looking for a group that won't be obsolete in 2 years. I ditched my Campy 8 speed for 10 and got my use out of it. At this stage I don't care what name is on the parts.

Campagnolo was always my first choice. The shifters and most small parts were available and it was easy to rebuild. When the went from the Ergo to Ultra/Power shift all that changed. Now they have 2 crank standards and 2 11 speed shifters. Plus they went from the 5 arm to a 4 arm and who knows what it's compatible with.

Shimano always impressed me because any indexed group from 6 - 10 speed had the same actuation ratio. Even the MTB rear derailleurs up to 9 speed worked with a road rear shifter. Please don't mention early DA. I think we all know they were different. Now we have 10 speed MTB and 11 speed road. Plus 10 speed Tiagra uses the same actuation ration as the 11 speed, so they say.

I can's say too much about SRAM because I've never used it.

Then we have the shift away from triples to CT double to 1 x 11. Add to that disc brakes, hydraulic and mechanical. Almost forgot the electric groups. Is it safe to buy now? Will parts be available in 2 years? Technology is moving so fast my head is spinning. What are the rest of you doing as far as investing in a group?
I can't see how waiting makes the problem any better.

I think everyone, even Campy (boo!) has moved away from repairable components. I think its fair to say though that if you buy a current 11s group you'll be able to find replacement components that are compatible for many years. In terms of wear parts, you can still buy 5s freewheels so it should be fine. I assume at some point the replacement stuff will get very expensive and hard to find and you'll just get a new group or new bike. I am pretty sure the big 3 are counting on this.

Meanwhile my 1999 Campy 9s groups still works fine and you can still get shifter parts for it
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
@daveg thanks for the reply. I could do the retro grouch thing and friction. I was hoping to avoid that. Campy dissapointed me when they went to a second 11 speed standard on their new and even uglier chorus and record mechanical groups.
Shimano has used the same actuation ratio for longer than any of the big 3. There should be a good supply of spares out there.
 

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I'm officially giving up on Campy after the 11 speed re-tool and the downgrading of Chorus (brakes). I'm not buying any components right now, maybe when Etap hydro becomes readily available in lower priced Sram groupsets and all the kinks have been worked out I'll give that a try.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm officially giving up on Campy after the 11 speed re-tool and the downgrading of Chorus (brakes). I'm not buying any components right now, maybe when Etap hydro becomes readily available in lower priced Sram groupsets and all the kinks have been worked out I'll give that a try.
What happened to the brakes? I know they went from dual action front and rear to a singles action rear to save weight. Did something else happen?
 

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I'm officially giving up on Campy after the 11 speed re-tool and the downgrading of Chorus (brakes). .
Campy has made some bad business decisions and this is another example. I have Campy on all my bikes right now (except for one with a SRAM/Campy mix). I do feel like they are going out of their way to alienate Campy owners
 

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What happened to the brakes? I know they went from dual action front and rear to a singles action rear to save weight. Did something else happen?
New Chorus brakes are no longer bearing brakes. Only Record and Super Record have central pivot bearings.
 

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I'm officially giving up on Campy after the 11 speed re-tool and the downgrading of Chorus (brakes).
To each his own, but man, the 2015 Record group is insanely great. The front shifting is now so good it begs the question. Why waste cash on EPS? The 2015 update is worth every penny.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Back to the OP, I'm trying not to make this a thread bashing any mfg. does anyone see actuation ratios changing or another cog being added anytime soon? When Shimano added an extra cog in basically the same space as 10 I could see them shortening it up to be able to shift all 11 gears. Campy was already successfully shifting 11 speeds. I saw no reason for them to change ratios. It was just enough of a chane to obsolete the old levers.
 

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If the goal is to buy a groupset now in such a way that you maximize longterm use and avoid obsolescence, my advice would be to get either Shimano 105 5800 or Ultegra 6800. All the Shimano 11s groupsets have interchangeable parts, and the drivetrain on all of their 11s groupsets are compatible with Di2 eTube electronic shifting. They are also extremely cheap, with a FULL 105 5800 groupset now under $400.

I do NOT say this as someone trying to push Shimano. I have 3 bikes with Campy 11s on them, and I love Campy shifting. I've never ridden SRAM. But if the goal is to have a bike that you can work on yourself, repair, and maintain affordably over many years, I think Shimano is a safer bet.
 

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To each his own, but man, the 2015 Record group is insanely great. The front shifting is now so good it begs the question. Why waste cash on EPS? The 2015 update is worth every penny.
So you're saying that the 2015 Record shifts better than say 2014 Record? I don't have the newest version but my Record and SR have always shifted wonderfully, especially after a break in period.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 

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What's the change? The two most expensive groups have ball bearing pivots which is the same way it's been for over 20 years.
Not true. 2007/08 Chorus brakes had bearings. The whole trickle down theory worked great until 2009...
 

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What's the change? The two most expensive groups have ball bearing pivots which is the same way it's been for over 20 years.
Not true. 2007/08 Chorus brakes had bearings. The whole trickle down theory worked great until 2009...
In 2007/2008 the two most expensive groups had bearings - Record and Chorus.

Super Record (and Athena) didn't return until 2009 when Campagnolo introduced 11 cogs.
 

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In 2007/2008 the two most expensive groups had bearings - Record and Chorus.

Super Record (and Athena) didn't return until 2009 when Campagnolo introduced 11 cogs.
That's a pretty strange way of looking at it... So if I add Super Duper Record regular old Record should lose the bearings? You should be a salesman for Campy!

Historically, innovations on the higher end groups have slowly migrated to the lower end groups. This is essentially doing the reverse. It sucks plain and simple.
 

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That's a pretty strange way of looking at it... So if I add Super Duper Record regular old Record should lose the bearings? You should be a salesman for Campy!

Historically, innovations on the higher end groups have slowly migrated to the lower end groups. This is essentially doing the reverse. It sucks plain and simple.
Campag has historically only had ball bearing center pivots on the top 2 groups, which currently is SR and R, for at least as long as I've had Campagnolo groups. Which go back to the mid-70s.

And I'll second the shifting on the 2015 redesigned groups. The shifting on the front is incredibly fast and feels much more like a rear shift than the front, while the rear is just seamless. I like it MUCH better than my old (and now sold) Di2 Ultegra. The shifts are probably a bit slower but there is a feel to the shifting that was missing from the Di2.

To the OP - sorry, can't help you much on which group to get. Every manufacturer changes things, and there is no guarantee that Shimano won't alter the pull on next year's groups. The only thing I can say is if you wait until it is "safe" to buy you won't buy anything. I have bikes that I still ride with mid-80s Campagnolo, early 90's Suntour, early '00s Shimano and Campagnolo, all of which are still serviceable and repairable. It might take a little work to find the parts, but they are out there. Just this spring I found a new Campagnolo Gran Sport RD at a swap meet that put my mid-80's Trek back on the road.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
If the goal is to buy a groupset now in such a way that you maximize longterm use and avoid obsolescence, my advice would be to get either Shimano 105 5800 or Ultegra 6800. All the Shimano 11s groupsets have interchangeable parts, and the drivetrain on all of their 11s groupsets are compatible with Di2 eTube electronic shifting. They are also extremely cheap, with a FULL 105 5800 groupset now under $400.

I do NOT say this as someone trying to push Shimano. I have 3 bikes with Campy 11s on them, and I love Campy shifting. I've never ridden SRAM. But if the goal is to have a bike that you can work on yourself, repair, and maintain affordably over many years, I think Shimano is a safer bet.
That is the goal. Personally I like to keep all my groups interchangeable. That way it makes it easier to keep spare parts. Now that both Campy and Shimano have moved 10 speed to their 4th level it seemed like a good time to make a move. I was going to stay with campy and just move to Athena. That way I could keep my wheels and still have the ability to use Chorus and Record in the future without any hassles. But Campy changed Chorus and Record again. Now they aren't compatible with Athena. Which would force me to go Chorus or higher. At this time that's too much money for 3 bikes. Which is why I started the thread.
 

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That is the goal. Personally I like to keep all my groups interchangeable. That way it makes it easier to keep spare parts. Now that both Campy and Shimano have moved 10 speed to their 4th level it seemed like a good time to make a move. I was going to stay with campy and just move to Athena. That way I could keep my wheels and still have the ability to use Chorus and Record in the future without any hassles. But Campy changed Chorus and Record again. Now they aren't compatible with Athena. Which would force me to go Chorus or higher. At this time that's too much money for 3 bikes. Which is why I started the thread.
I'm in a similar situation, as I maintain my bikes and my wife's bikes. At first my plan was Athena 11s for all, but then I ran into the issues with removing the new power torque cranks. This led to needing chorus or better cranks, just so I could easily remove and replace them. And then my wife tried a bike with ultrashift shifters and we ended up having to do some upgrading there. Then campy changed everything up in 2015.

The nice thing about the current Shimano lineup is that everything from 105 through dura-ace is interchangeable. I can get a really good 11s chain for $15. And everything on Shimano is so easy to work on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm in a similar situation, as I maintain my bikes and my wife's bikes. At first my plan was Athena 11s for all, but then I ran into the issues with removing the new power torque cranks. This led to needing chorus or better cranks, just so I could easily remove and replace them. And then my wife tried a bike with ultrashift shifters and we ended up having to do some upgrading there. Then campy changed everything up in 2015.

The nice thing about the current Shimano lineup is that everything from 105 through dura-ace is interchangeable. I can get a really good 11s chain for $15. And everything on Shimano is so easy to work on.
Agreed, but that means selling off everything to finance the new.
 
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