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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
http://cherryvalleywheelworks.blogspot.com/

THIS IS OWNED BY MARK HOKINS/HODGE.

AKA: Marcus Collibolletti, Eric Prima, Chris Royale among others...

Also avoid Karbobike here on RBR! e-mail: [email protected]

THESE ARE SCAM ARTISTS.

Hopefully this becomes a sticky!!

Here some newer info:

It seems that Jason (karbonbike)/Mark has like his brother in law been taking some people for their money. He has also been selling grey market through the PM systems on quite a few forums. Serotta, WW etc.... Anyway while he has been supplying you he has at the same time been undercutting you, and selling Edge wheels grey market for $1100 direct to customers. I only know this because I was contacted by Edge about it.

At this point in time, he is out of Edge rims and Edge will not be selling him anymore. Knowing how they have handled things in the past, I doubt this will stop him from taking orders for Edge wheels from you. You would probably be best off to not place Edge orders with him anymore as he will not be able to deliver them to you. I know a couple people that got wheels from Mark Hoskin and since they did not trust him had them sent COD. The thing about this is that the UPS driver will usually not let you open the box before you pay for it. Mark was in the habit of sending wheels that the customer did not order. He then would make it impossible for them to collect a refund or the proper wheels.

Last address I have is:

Esoteric Equipment
1721 DATE ST
Beumont, CA
92223
 

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DIRT BOY said:
Anyway while he has been supplying you he has at the same time been undercutting you, and selling Edge wheels grey market for $1100 direct to customers. I only know this because I was contacted by Edge about it. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
I don't understand this. I though Edge made rims, not wheels. And once he bought rims to make wheels, why would he not be allowed to sell said wheels for any price at which he thought he could make a profit?

Mfg/suppliers that try to control the free market with retail price controls suck big time.
 

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android said:
IMfg/suppliers that try to control the free market with retail price controls suck big time.
Unfortunately it is very common in the bike industry... and probably most others. I haven't heard anything from Edge regarding price restrictions, so I'm not sure if that was the issue here.
 

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android said:
I don't understand this. I though Edge made rims, not wheels. And once he bought rims to make wheels, why would he not be allowed to sell said wheels for any price at which he thought he could make a profit?

Mfg/suppliers that try to control the free market with retail price controls suck big time.
He was selling them for less then wholesale. He had not paid Edge for all of the rims he had ordered from them. So when you get things for free you can sell it for any amount you want and still make money.

He did the same thing to Tune. He bought a bunch of skewers but never paid for them and then was selling them to shops for about $20 less then wholesale. He was telling the shops that he was the new Tune distributor and was getting better pricing from Tune.
 

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Ligero said:
He was selling them for less then wholesale. He had not paid Edge for all of the rims he had ordered from them. So when you get things for free you can sell it for any amount you want and still make money.

He did the same thing to Tune. He bought a bunch of skewers but never paid for them and then was selling them to shops for about $20 less then wholesale. He was telling the shops that he was the new Tune distributor and was getting better pricing from Tune.
And somehow he gets these dealers to give him product. Same with DT Swiss. Mark/Jason were getting below OEM pricing. My DT 190s built where cheaper than DT 190 wholesale.
The industy must have heard about this guy buy now and should do something.
Jason just laughs this satuff off from my impression.

he post here as karbonbike.

Now if the authorities could nab him. I told one jilted customer that I would help with what info I have.

The pricing on Edge rims I was getting was a bit below wholesale. After realizing who and what I was dealing with, I stope dealing with them. They got me a few times now. Sad, I know....:(
 

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Ligero said:
He was selling them for less then wholesale. He had not paid Edge for all of the rims he had ordered from them. So when you get things for free you can sell it for any amount you want and still make money.

He did the same thing to Tune. He bought a bunch of skewers but never paid for them and then was selling them to shops for about $20 less then wholesale. He was telling the shops that he was the new Tune distributor and was getting better pricing from Tune.
He sounds like a con man, but it also sounds like perhaps a credit check of new customers might be in order.
 

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This thread makes no sense. Just from the info provided it is clear that the grey market accusations are false because Edge sold the product to the wheelmaker. They did not buy it cheaper in a foreign country, outside the normal distribution channels. The credit issue is irrelevant to wheel customer - most businesses sell product before they've actually paid for them.

Likewise, the COD issue does not hold water. A half intelligent buyer would not use COD. First, COD fees are such that they need to cover the cost of return shipping. Second, use of a credit card to purchase generally protects the buyer and avoids COD fees. The main risk to a buyer using a credit card is that he will have to pay for return shipping if it's the wrong item. Why would a buyer pay a COD fee and give up the protection of a credit card? They wouldn't - so I call bullshyt.

It sounds like dirt boy has an interest in Edge or has a hair across his butt regarding Cherry Valley and is using his internet anonymity to launch an attack. I never trust internet accusations where the accuser uses an alias.

Roger
 

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rogerstg said:
This thread makes no sense. Just from the info provided it is clear that the grey market accusations are false because Edge sold the product to the wheelmaker.
They did sell it to him but he never paid for it so technically he got them for free hence the reason he could sell them so cheap.

rogerstg said:
Likewise, the COD issue does not hold water. A half intelligent buyer would not use COD. First, COD fees are such that they need to cover the cost of return shipping. Second, use of a credit card to purchase generally protects the buyer and avoids COD fees. The main risk to a buyer using a credit card is that he will have to pay for return shipping if it's the wrong item. Why would a buyer pay a COD fee and give up the protection of a credit card? They wouldn't - so I call bullshyt.
The guy (Cherry Valley) does not take credit cards so people had to pay by sending a check first or by COD. So you have a guy offering incredible deals but you cannot use a cc to pay and have that protection so the next safest way would be COD.

rogerstg said:
It sounds like dirt boy has an interest in Edge or has a hair across his butt regarding Cherry Valley and is using his internet anonymity to launch an attack. I never trust internet accusations where the accuser uses an alias.

Roger
I am not sure what interest he could have in Edge except that he finds there rims interesting:confused: As far as him having a hair across his butt he has ripped off by the guy twice now so I would think he would have a problem with him. The guy has ripped off many, many people and companies, I can give you a list if you would like. I have had people from companies contact me to see if I had a way to contact Eric Prima, Erik, Marc, Mark, Mark Hotchis, Marc Hotchins and many other aliases because he owed them thousands of dollars or euros in some cases.

Troy
 

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Ligero said:
The guy (Cherry Valley) does not take credit cards so people had to pay by sending a check first or by COD. So you have a guy offering incredible deals but you cannot use a cc to pay and have that protection so the next safest way would be COD.
It's starting to make more sense now.
FWIW, I'm not casting aspersions on dirt boy either, just calling it like I see it, with the limited info I've seen.

As far as someone paying or not paying a vendor, I'm not sure how dirtboy would know that unless affiliated with the company. Also, that's between the vendor and wheelmaker. They made a business decision to give them credit, like many businesses.

The no credit card bit is always a red flag to me. I'd never do business with those terms.

Roger
 

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rogerstg said:
As far as someone paying or not paying a vendor, I'm not sure how dirtboy would know that unless affiliated with the company. Also, that's between the vendor and wheelmaker. They made a business decision to give them credit, like many businesses.
I was the one that said he didn't pay Edge and I know that because someone from Edge told me. I was wanting to know when I would get rims that I had ordered and they told me how Cherry Valley had bought everything but they also never paid. The way he gets companies to send him large orders without paying is he gives them a cc number but says that he has a daily limit and so could they please run it in multiple transactions over the course of a few days. So by the time they start running the card he already has the product and usually the first charge on the card works and then all the rest get denied.
 

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The key data point

rogerstg said:
It's starting to make more sense now.
FWIW, I'm not casting aspersions on dirt boy either, just calling it like I see it, with the limited info I've seen.
The key piece of information is that this guy (Mark Hoskin, plus a whole bunch of aliases) has been running scams in the bike industry going on a decade. His MO is to take your money on what seems to be a good deal, and then either not deliver or deliver something different than what was ordered. Once he gets your money, hever answers the phone, never responds to e-mail, etc. He is well known in many quarters for this behavior, but operates on the "new fields to conquer" principle, finding folks who haven't heard of him. Old timers steer well clear of him and are always surprised to hear when he's gotten away with it again, as it appears he has.
 

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Kudos to dirt boy then for bringing this to readers' attention. Kerry's and Ligero's info fills in a lot of blanks. I regretted posting some of my comments, but then realized that if my critical comments caused info to come forward that will help others avoid this scum - maybe it was a good thing.

Thanks guys,
Roger
 

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I bought a Powertap wheel off Serrota forums from Marcus Collibolletti. Luckily I asked for phone number and address BEFORE making the purchase. I did get my wheel but several weeks later several members from the forum contacted me asking if I ever received anything from Marcus Collibolletti because he sold the same wheel to more than one person. Beware of this dude, I was lucky. Many others werent.
 

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The OP in the Traders Forum states he paid by credit card, so that's a bad piece of information from someone. Considering the number of threads about Ligero dragging out the delivery of product to customers past the Paypal claims period I know who I'd trust more with their claims as only one of them can be right. Just saying.

The whole price fixing side is interesting, I believe any company is able to sell at whatever prices they see fit, isn't that the American way? That being the case I see a large quantity of sour grapes from "competitors" who don't even pay to advertise on this forum....

If I were Cherry Valley I'd be starting to talk to an Attorney....
 

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CIOCC FAN said:
The OP in the Traders Forum states he paid by credit card, so that's a bad piece of information from someone. Considering the number of threads about Ligero dragging out the delivery of product to customers past the Paypal claims period I know who I'd trust more with their claims as only one of them can be right. Just saying.

If I were Cherry Valley I'd be starting to talk to an Attorney....
So you have such a big problem with me that you ignored the other posters saying the same things that I did? The guy has ripped people off under many different names for years, he was even deported for doing it!

I have made changes to my business (which I have mentioned in another thread) so that people get what they order in a timely manner. I know that I have had problems in the past but I do not understand guys like you that will continue to bash me even after I fixed the problems.

So at what point is it Ok for me to start threads telling people how customers have screwed me over? Would you join in and bash them like you do me or do I just have to live with it because the customer is always right?
 

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Ligero said:
So at what point is it Ok for me to start threads telling people how customers have screwed me over? Would you join in and bash them like you do me or do I just have to live with it because the customer is always right?
Ligero runs an honest business, and has never been accused of not delivery an excellent product. I have seen threads start about having a hard time contacting him- but they were in the distant pass (about a year ago) but all posters would update the thread that they got a hold of him and the wheels were slow out the door, but all was well.

Ligero, glad to see you have changed your model to avoid any delays with wheel orders, and please ignore CIOCC. :thumbsup:
 

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Ligero said:
So you have such a big problem with me that you ignored the other posters saying the same things that I did? The guy has ripped people off under many different names for years, he was even deported for doing it!

I have made changes to my business (which I have mentioned in another thread) so that people get what they order in a timely manner. I know that I have had problems in the past but I do not understand guys like you that will continue to bash me even after I fixed the problems.

So at what point is it Ok for me to start threads telling people how customers have screwed me over? Would you join in and bash them like you do me or do I just have to live with it because the customer is always right?
If someone was deported, they wouldn't be able to return for 10 years minimum (typically). So either the problem is he's no longer in the US (and as a result not returning calls, shipping anything and dealing with bigger problems), or your repeating an untruth. Which is it?

I mentioned specific comments you made as fact that are obviously false. Also one point that basically comes down to stones and glass houses plus isn't even true. If it's okay for you to fix things and move on (something you have done three times according to different RBR threads) then I believe the same is true for everyone. That you don't agree with that is part of why I responded, and the other is the outright lies your presenting as facts, which just reading threads on RBR proves to be so. That ain't right.

I believe no one should need to start threads, you or a customer of yours (I'm being specific because you asked a specific question), that people feel the need to do so is indicative of a bigger problem generally in society and with the way people like yourself feel it's okay to advertise for no cost, but not recieve criticisim. In general though, I don't think you should be able to make your free self serving infomercials, but I'm not a Mod.

My guess is your worried about competition from Cherry Valley, and that's why your posting anything to do with this, even posting downright lies and misinformation.

@Kestrel, there was a thread last month on WW about someone still waiting after 8 months for wheels from Ligero that couldn't get a reply, and earlier this year there was one in the Components Forum of RBR. Neither of those threads is about a year ago... some of them also mentioned product problems that they were scared to return for fear of how long it would take to get them back, and bad packing in one instance that lead to damages which were not replaced (a partial refund was given without offering a choice of solutions).
 

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CIOCC FAN said:
@Kestrel, there was a thread last month on WW about someone still waiting after 8 months for wheels from Ligero that couldn't get a reply, and earlier this year there was one in the Components Forum of RBR. Neither of those threads is about a year ago... some of them also mentioned product problems that they were scared to return for fear of how long it would take to get them back, and bad packing in one instance that lead to damages which were not replaced (a partial refund was given without offering a choice of solutions).
My point remains, Ligero has always run an honest business. He might have had customer service problems, but that has nothing to do with allegations of Cherry Valley.

I appreciate the insiders knowledge that Ligero has on this topic, and you splitting hairs defending a known scam artist makes me question you as well. Sorry, no disrespect intended. :thumbsup:
 

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I'm not splitting hairs, just pointing out obvious lies and untruths just from reading this and the other thread that things stated as fact obviously aren't. That serves nobody, the truth does. I make no defense of anybodys actions.
 
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