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Fly on a windshield
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I read this two part interview with Saxo Bank's manager Bjarne Riis and must say I'm pretty disappointed they never went into any depth on the "doping" issue.
After having read part 1, I was anxiously waiting to see part 2 to see if they would talk about Ivan Basso and maybe Frank Schleck. Nada!
The one quote that really jumped up at me was this:
"We have proven that we can win the Tour de France without doping, it's about doing the right thing," Riis says regarding former team rider Carlos Sastre's 2008 Tour de France victory.

I wonder how someone Walsh would've approached this interview.

Part 1: http://www.cyclingnews.com/interviews.php?id=riders/2009/interviews/bjarne_riis_mar091
Part 2: http://www.cyclingnews.com/interviews.php?id=riders/2009/interviews/bjarne_riis_mar092
 

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I'll cut him some slack for finally coming clean on his personal history doping.

Mr 60% could have continued to deny the use of PEDs by reminding the media that he never failed a drug test.
 

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I admired him for coming clean...His conduct as a DS is and has been deplorable. Basso, Tyler, Jorge, Frank that we know about.
 

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Digger28 said:
I admired him for coming clean...His conduct as a DS is and has been deplorable. Basso, Tyler, Jorge, Frank that we know about.
pretty much "came clean" the same way madoff did though....
 

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Digger28 said:
I admired him for coming clean...His conduct as a DS is and has been deplorable. Basso, Tyler, Jorge, Frank that we know about.
I would not be surprised to find out down the road that Damsgaard was a front. His integrity has now been called into question, seems to be plenty of rumors that more than one of the suspicious blood guys from last year are Riis' riders. And I wouldn't be surprised if Riis is still playing the old game of trying to out fox the testers.
 

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Dwayne Barry said:
I would not be surprised to find out down the road that Damsgaard was a front. His integrity has now been called into question, seems to be plenty of rumors that more than one of the suspicious blood guys from last year are Riis' riders. And I wouldn't be surprised if Riis is still playing the old game of trying to out fox the testers.
Don't make up rumours about evidence, it's pissing on the integrity of the debate.
 

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OctaBech said:
Don't make up rumours about evidence, it's pissing on the integrity of the debate.
You mean like the "rumor" that Schleck was working with Fuentes? The rumor that he denied for two years.....until we found out he was lying?
 

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bigpinkt said:
You mean like the "rumor" that Schleck was working with Fuentes? The rumor that he denied for two years.....until we found out he was lying?
or that saxo bank would not accept that Fuglsang was training with @ssmussen. Until we found out that apparently it was ok anyway.
 

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Dwayne Barry said:
I may be repeating made up rumours, but I'm not making up rumours :)
As can be read on Team Saxo Bank's official forum(post 9 from the top), it's not that I have much confidence in Damsgaard.

But running with lose rumours or being even more vague by mentioning that there may be lose rumours only hurt the integrity of the debate.

So please do elaborate on these rumours by at least mentioning what they are about. Or else we are no better than silly fans who accuse everyone who beat our preferred riders for doping, and we will be overlooked just like they rightfully are.
 

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bigpinkt said:
You mean like the "rumor" that Schleck was working with Fuentes? The rumor that he denied for two years.....until we found out he was lying?
First of all, my post was written in context to the vague rumours about Damsgaard, where I asked for them to be specified for the sake of this debate's integrity. Because every fanboy/girl can make these flyby accusations when their favourite riders are beaten.

About Fränk, well isn't he still on the bike winning due to lack of evidence? I believe he is, which is rather confusing when these rumours and a certain newspaper claimed to be in possession of hard evidence, which in the end proved to be all lies.

It's also rather ironic that the rider the certain paper had tried to defend against Fränk before the last ITT ended up being caught for CERA.

And I believe it only got worse after that, when all the false CERA accusations flew through the air during the Olympicss and the WC. It sure didn't help the integrity of the press.

Now I'm not saying that Fränk is clean(rather sad if he isn't, considering the many riders who are performing better), but this story only ended up hurting the sport with more doping accusations while also hurting the credibility of the journalists who are supposed to be our watchdogs and not make up stories.

Which all leads me back to your comment "You mean like the 'rumour' that Schleck was working with Fuentes?". That's like being proud of having hit a bird in your 1000'th attempt with a machinegun.
Again, these vague rumours are worthless because they are thrown by angry fans at everyone in the sport to defend their own favourites. :mad2:

So the least we can do on this board, which already is considered as a place for geeky fanboys with no connection to reality, is to avoid harming the integrity of the debate even more.
There are plenty of numbers for us to look at and debate.
 

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den bakker said:
or that saxo bank would not accept that Fuglsang was training with @ssmussen. Until we found out that apparently it was ok anyway.
And that automatically makes Jakob a doper right, even though he is monitored and not allowed to use outside doctors?

This is quite problematic because you can't find any in the sport who in one way or another isn't connected to someone caught for or under suspicion for doping.
Just look at Garmin, hailed for its war against doping with its captain from Team CSC(who is performing better than he did there) and his DS Jonathan Vaughters, an old USP rider.

I hope you can see what I was doing there.

Back to Jakob. It's not kept as a secret who he is training with, it's not a surprise.
Yes the team forbid him to train with Rasmussen, but Jakob kept insisting through the Danish media and the new Danish sponsor(Saxo Bank) noticed that the public opinion in Denmark was that Jakob should be allowed to train with the great Danish hope which "wrongly" had been thrown out of TdF(not much different than the average American view on Armstrong returning to the sport).
It's the same sponsor who is pressing the team to buy more Danish riders and bring them to TdF even though it may be too early.

There you have it, the sport can't be cleaned up by throwing out all the old names.
Politics are much more complicated than so.
 

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OctaBech said:
And that automatically makes Jakob a doper right, even though he is monitored and not allowed to use outside doctors?
[\QUOTE]
That was not what I said so nice strawman.
He is not allowed to use outside doctors? just like he was not allowed to train with @ssmussen?

This is quite problematic because you can't find any in the sport who in one way or another isn't connected to someone caught for or under suspicion for doping.
Just look at Garmin, hailed for its war against doping with its captain from Team CSC(who is performing better than he did there) and his DS Jonathan Vaughters, an old USP rider.
[\QUOTE]
And I did not say anything like that in my post.

I hope you can see what I was doing there.
[\QUOTE]
yes and it's not pretty.

Back to Jakob. It's not kept as a secret who he is training with, it's not a surprise.
Yes the team forbid him to train with Rasmussen, but Jakob kept insisting through the Danish media and the new Danish sponsor(Saxo Bank) noticed that the public opinion in Denmark was that Jakob should be allowed to train with the great Danish hope which "wrongly" had been thrown out of TdF(not much different than the average American view on Armstrong returning to the sport).
[\QUOTE]
The "public opinion" is a bit more diverse in Denmark than that.
Do you have a link to the info concerning the bank's pressuring of the cycling team to reverse their decision on who Fuglsang could train with?
 
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