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Former Roadbikereview Editor
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
These are the smoothest wheels I've used and these are the smoothest tires I've tried. So the marriage was inevitable. It pumped up nicely and I put some Stans fluid in the tires for extra protection.

Installation went like this: Floor pump, no dice. Compressor, no go. Remove the valve core, nope. Shoot it with a blast of CO2, presto. Success!

So I've been riding Hutchinson Tubeless for a month and they really are pretty special. The comfort, and rolling resistance is noticeably better. Part of the reason is I ride the Tubeless at 85 psi instead my normal 110 psi. So today, I rode my tubed Conti 4000s tires at 85 psi as well and swapped wheelset/tires as I did my neighborhood hilly loop.

So the Conti 4000s was pretty comfortable as well at 85 psi. The Hutchinson Tubeless was a bit more comfortable but not dramatically so. The difference is more obvious in cement roads and rough patches. The Hutchinsons seem to float while the tubed tire seemed to vibrate. Also, the Hutchinsons have a firmer sidewall so it seems to corner better than the tubed tire at these low pressures. And of course, I'm not sure if I can ride the Conti 4000s at 85 psi without pinch flatting.

Note that the Hutchinson Tubeless are noisier. They make more of hollow road noise as if there's a bigger voice box to amplify the road buzz.

Finally, how did the R-Sys carbon spoked wheels mate with the Hutchinsons? Like ink and paper! It was very smooth all around. And on steep rough climbs, this system rocketed up the climbs with good acceleration and good rolling resistance.

Aside from more riding, I plan on more rough rides and dirt roads. Then I'll put tubeless cross tires on these wheels too.

fc
 

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Note that the Hutchinson Tubeless are noisier. They make more of hollow road noise as if there's a bigger voice box to amplify the road buzz.
Yes, I've notice that too, but I kind of like the sound. Not annoying to me at all.

I finally switched back yesterday to Hutchinson Tubeless on my 7850's. I'm going to stick with them. It took me no longer to mount them this time with a floor pump than a traditional clincher.
 

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monkey with flamethrower
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Road tubeless is great and I hope Conti and Michelin produce tubeless road tubless tires soon.
But hey Francois, line up those tire logos with the valvestem. Its bad form not to have it that way.
 

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Former Roadbikereview Editor
Steelman Eurocross bike
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Rubber Lizard said:
Road tubeless is great and I hope Conti and Michelin produce tubeless road tubless tires soon.
But hey Francois, line up those tire logos with the valvestem. Its bad form not to have it that way.
Yes, I'm curious about other tire manufacturers. I don't know if Hutchinson has a lock on the technology or not. This really needs to be more prevalent I think.

Logos.... someday, I shall learn :p.

fc
 

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monkey with flamethrower
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I know that Michelin has the technology to produce a tubeless road tire as they were the initial developer of the concept. Supposedly IRC has a tubeless road tire out they aren't a heavy hitter in the tire world and none of the big bicycle distributors seem to carry that tire in the states.
Its not hard to produce a tire for road tubeless. You essentially need the bead of the tire to be made of a material that doesn't stretch. Hutchinson uses a carbon fiber bead but there are lots of super strong alternative organic fibers out there and lots of clever engineers so plenty of alternatives abound. Since Hutchinson has figured out what works, there isn't too much R&D left to do in making your own tire.
Rim shape supposedly has a place with road tubeless, the Shimano wheels use a slightly different profile that prevents the tire from rolling off in case of a blowout. You don't need that profile for tubeless to work but be assured that Mavic and probably Campy have similar rim profiles developed. All it really takes is one of the big tire companies, conti, michelin or vittoria to jump on the road tubeless bandwagon and the systems popularity will explode.
 

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Thanks FC for the review. I've been riding the Hutchinson tubeless on Shimano 7850's for about 6 weeks now and have to agree with your observations. I've read on the forums that the use of Stan's sealant voids the Hutchinson warranty but couldn't find any one to confirm it so I called Hutchinson in NJ today (609-393-1780) to aks them if it was true. The customer service rep confirmed that it is true that if you use anything other than THEIR "Fast-Air" sealant, the warranty is void. He went on to say that it is the ammount of ammonia in Stan's sealant that will begin to destroy the inside of the tire. I asked him why then do so manny mtn. bikers use Stan's in thier Hutchinson mtn. bike tires and he said that the mt. bikers seem to wear their tires out before the ammonia has time enough to takes them out. I have no idea if his response to me is completely truthful or if it is colored by the desire to push their sealant over all others, but it is what he said and I thought that I'd at least put it out there for others to consider on it's own merits. I love the tires, but I don't want them to fail on me when I'm cooking down Hwy 9 at 48-50mph.
 

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Rubber Lizard said:
The ammonia in Stans will not damage the rubber in the hutchinson tires. Thats just their marketing cover to get people to use their ineffective fast'air sealant.
Huh, yes it will. I have seen in on MY Hutchinson tires and other brands. Schwalbe aslo say the same thing. Now does it happen with EVERY tire? No, its kinda rare, but it does happen.

best think is make you own!!

Mold Builder Latex, water and tubless slime.

And you think Stan and No Tubes will tell you an honest opinion as well?
They want you to buy thier stuff as well.

This has been know for YEARS on the MTB side, that no tubes juice MAY cause problems with certain tires. Also Try DT Swiss' latex formula.
 

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I have a question a few questions. Is the Stans stuff sticky when you have to pull the tire off to fix a flat...heard that it stinks?
Do you have to use the Stans stuff or can you use...say some Green Slim and water.....or maybe sone dishwashing soap and water....or is there something else that what would be the best stuff that doesnt smell or not as sticky?

How long does the Stans sutff work in the tire until you have to put more in?

Does the Stans stuff suppose to help with a thron going through the tire and seals it?

How well does the tires hold air? Do you have to go and pump them up every few days like tubes?


Thanks...........
 

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hotshot said:
I have a question a few questions. Is the Stans stuff sticky when you have to pull the tire off to fix a flat...heard that it stinks?
Not really.
Do you have to use the Stans stuff or can you use...say some Green Slim and water.....or maybe sone dishwashing soap and water....or is there something else that what would be the best stuff that doesnt smell or not as sticky?
Tubeless Slime will work, but it's more nastier. latex based stuff works better IMO.

How long does the Stans sutff work in the tire until you have to put more in?
Depending on the weather (heat) 2-3months

Does the Stans stuff suppose to help with a thron going through the tire and seals it?
Yes, also glass, nails, etc. I use Stan's or Specialized Air-Lock or Doc Blue in my Tubulars.

How well does the tires hold air? Do you have to go and pump them up every few days like tubes?
You might be able to go a few days without adding air. If you seal them very well at first.
 

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Former Roadbikereview Editor
Steelman Eurocross bike
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
hotshot said:
How well does the tires hold air? Do you have to go and pump them up every few days like tubes?


Thanks...........
I just checked my tires and they're both at 75 psi. That's down from 85 psi after two days.

That's typical of my experience with them over the last month.

Check out the test rig. 16 lbs of comort. Who cut the chain too short?? Lunch ride!!!

fc
 

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monkey with flamethrower
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DIRT BOY said:
Huh, yes it will. I have seen in on MY Hutchinson tires and other brands. Schwalbe aslo say the same thing. Now does it happen with EVERY tire? No, its kinda rare, but it does happen.
QUOTE]
Hutchinson has modified their rubber inner rubber compound to prevent any nasty interactions with ammonia. It was a problem on preproduction road tubeless and early mountain tubeless tires. Don't believe me, talk to the chemists at Hutchinson.
 

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Rubber Lizard said:
Hutchinson has modified their rubber inner rubber compound to prevent any nasty interactions with ammonia. It was a problem on preproduction road tubeless and early mountain tubeless tires. Don't believe me, talk to the chemists at Hutchinson.
You did? Ok. I have seen it al regulsar mtb tires and UST up to the 2007 model line. So maybe things changed. But No Tubes never warned you earlier about this issues.
 

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How well does the tires hold air? Do you have to go and pump them up every few days like tubes?
My experience is similar to that of Francois. About the same as an ordinary clincher. But I don't use any sealant. For me, I don't see the point. With 2500 miles so far, I've had one flat. I was in a hurry that day and was carrying a can of Fast Air, so I used it. But in the future I'll just tube it and patch the tire when I get home. YMMV.
 

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francois said:
I just checked my tires and they're both at 75 psi. That's down from 85 psi after two days.

That's typical of my experience with them over the last month.

Check out the test rig. 16 lbs of comort. Who cut the chain too short?? Lunch ride!!!

fc
Great, I think I am going to try on my KinLin rims. if more tires come oput and it work well, I could see the end of tubulars for me and a lot of people.
 

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Former Roadbikereview Editor
Steelman Eurocross bike
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
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