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Old Skool
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Rules are rules and I agree that the race officials were right to DQ Hoste, Van Petegem and Gusev for the railroad crossing violation. However, it stinks for those guys. They should not have been put in that situation. For that matter, if the train had been a little earlier Fabian Cancellara might not have been on top of the podium.

Maybe I am missing something, but I think the race organizers have some explaining to do. Did they not check the rail schedule? Why would the race route cross an active rail line so close to the finish? Was another route possible? If not, what about delaying or rerouting the rail traffic during the window of time that the race leaders were expected to hit that crossing?

Can anyone shed some light on this situation?
 

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Stogaguy said:
Rules are rules and I agree that the race officials were right to DQ Hoste, Van Petegem and Gusev for the railroad crossing violation. However, it stinks for those guys. They should not have been put in that situation. For that matter, if the train had been a little earlier Fabian Cancellara might not have been on top of the podium.

Maybe I am missing something, but I think the race organizers have some explaining to do. Did they not check the rail schedule? Why would the race route cross an active rail line so close to the finish? Was another route possible? If not, what about delaying or rerouting the rail traffic during the window of time that the race leaders were expected to hit that crossing?

Can anyone shed some light on this situation?

They weren't the average speed was going to be so high ...they were way ahead od schedule. This isn't the first time this has happened with the rail crossings either.
 

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P-R crosses the industrial north of France, and rail lines coupled with pave that was disappearing at an alarming rate have been the bain of it's recent exisistance.

But these are races on the open road and have been subject to this kind of incident for decades, hence the rules.

The expression is "Hey, that's bike racing!"
 

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ultimobici said:
P-R crosses the industrial north of France, and rail lines coupled with pave that was disappearing at an alarming rate have been the bain of it's recent exisistance.

But these are races on the open road and have been subject to this kind of incident for decades, hence the rules.

The expression is "Hey, that's bike racing!"
this is true
 

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the train

Watch OLN it apears the train was a freight train carry some big round things....these type of trains are not on a schedule, only passenger trains are.
 

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Stogaguy said:
Rules are rules and I agree that the race officials were right to DQ Hoste, Van Petegem and Gusev for the railroad crossing violation. However, it stinks for those guys. They should not have been put in that situation. For that matter, if the train had been a little earlier Fabian Cancellara might not have been on top of the podium.

Maybe I am missing something, but I think the race organizers have some explaining to do. Did they not check the rail schedule? Why would the race route cross an active rail line so close to the finish? Was another route possible? If not, what about delaying or rerouting the rail traffic during the window of time that the race leaders were expected to hit that crossing?

Can anyone shed some light on this situation?

I'm more concerned with the ruling. Isn't the rule that they're not allowed to cross if the barriers are down and the lights are flashing? (does anyone know where to find this?) If Hoste, Van Petegem and Gusev were all DQ'ed for a violation, and Boonen, Ballan and Fletcha crossed while the lights were flashing and the barriers were down as well, shouldn't they have been DQ'ed also?

I feel like they should either
a) DQ Boonen, Ballan, and Fletcha as well for breaking the same rule,​
b) Give back spots 2,3 and 4 to Hoste, Van Petegem, and Gusev (in an interview somewhere, even Boonen said his rightful spot was 5th​

Maybe they could reach a compromise somehow and award the ProTour points to Hoste, Van Petegem, and Gusev without awarding them the placings in Paris-Roubaix...
 
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Cruzer2424 said:
I'm more concerned with the ruling. Isn't the rule that they're not allowed to cross if the barriers are down and the lights are flashing? (does anyone know where to find this?) If Hoste, Van Petegem and Gusev were all DQ'ed for a violation, and Boonen, Ballan and Fletcha crossed while the lights were flashing and the barriers were down as well, shouldn't they have been DQ'ed also?
The marshalls stopped Boonen et. al. I presume the marshalls gave them the go ahead as well. I wonder where the marshalls were when Hoste et al. went through ?
 

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Cruzer2424 said:
I'm more concerned with the ruling. Isn't the rule that they're not allowed to cross if the barriers are down and the lights are flashing? (does anyone know where to find this?) If Hoste, Van Petegem and Gusev were all DQ'ed for a violation, and Boonen, Ballan and Fletcha crossed while the lights were flashing and the barriers were down as well, shouldn't they have been DQ'ed also?

I feel like they should either
a) DQ Boonen, Ballan, and Fletcha as well for breaking the same rule,​
b) Give back spots 2,3 and 4 to Hoste, Van Petegem, and Gusev (in an interview somewhere, even Boonen said his rightful spot was 5th​

Maybe they could reach a compromise somehow and award the ProTour points to Hoste, Van Petegem, and Gusev without awarding them the placings in Paris-Roubaix...
Barriers down!

Taken from:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/apr06/roubaix06/index.php?id=Par704042
 

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Boonen's group was waved through by an official before the gates went up. The rules may have been violated in their case, but it was with the approval of the race official.

Cruzer2424 said:
I'm more concerned with the ruling. Isn't the rule that they're not allowed to cross if the barriers are down and the lights are flashing? (does anyone know where to find this?) If Hoste, Van Petegem and Gusev were all DQ'ed for a violation, and Boonen, Ballan and Fletcha crossed while the lights were flashing and the barriers were down as well, shouldn't they have been DQ'ed also?

I feel like they should either
a) DQ Boonen, Ballan, and Fletcha as well for breaking the same rule,​
b) Give back spots 2,3 and 4 to Hoste, Van Petegem, and Gusev (in an interview somewhere, even Boonen said his rightful spot was 5th​

Maybe they could reach a compromise somehow and award the ProTour points to Hoste, Van Petegem, and Gusev without awarding them the placings in Paris-Roubaix...
 

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Old Skool
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Discussion Starter #11
Ranting

surftel said:
Watch OLN it apears the train was a freight train carry some big round things....these type of trains are not on a schedule, only passenger trains are.
Yes, I understand the industrial nature of Northern France. I also understand that rail traffic control is complicated given the need to eliminate collisions between trains. I also get that the SNCF, the French National railroad company, is a big inflexible bureaucracy. I even get the whole open roads, “Hey that’s bike racing” thing. However, P-R is a cultural icon and to have the outcome effected by humanly preventable man made interruptions is, IMHO, just plain BS. If the freight trains are not on a schedule, then delaying one should not really be an issue. This, IMHO, is just piss poor contingency planning on the part of the race organizers. Does no one else share even a little of my “outrage”?

Having lived in France for a year and a half, I also understand that my obsessing about the “fairness thing” and the “diligence on the part of the organizers thing” reflects cultural differences between Europe and the US. From a European/French perspective, P-R’s status as a cultural icon is not necessarily linked to the fairness of its outcome. In fact, random stuff like rail traffic effecting the outcome can easily be viewed as part of what makes it an icon in the first place. However, in this case, IMHO, this argument is just an excuse for sloppiness on the part of the organizers.

There! I’m done ranting. Thanks for listening. I’ll go get a life now…
 

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Stogaguy said:
Yes, I understand the industrial nature of Northern France. I also understand that rail traffic control is complicated given the need to eliminate collisions between trains. I also get that the SNCF, the French National railroad company, is a big inflexible bureaucracy. I even get the whole open roads, “Hey that’s bike racing” thing. However, P-R is a cultural icon and to have the outcome effected by humanly preventable man made interruptions is, IMHO, just plain BS. If the freight trains are not on a schedule, then delaying one should not really be an issue. This, IMHO, is just piss poor contingency planning on the part of the race organizers. Does no one else share even a little of my “outrage”?

Having lived in France for a year and a half, I also understand that my obsessing about the “fairness thing” and the “diligence on the part of the organizers thing” reflects cultural differences between Europe and the US. From a European/French perspective, P-R’s status as a cultural icon is not necessarily linked to the fairness of its outcome. In fact, random stuff like rail traffic effecting the outcome can easily be viewed as part of what makes it an icon in the first place. However, in this case, IMHO, this argument is just an excuse for sloppiness on the part of the organizers.

There! I’m done ranting. Thanks for listening. I’ll go get a life now…
Halting trains isn't going to happen, it would cause way too much disruption in the system spreading delays all over the country. Paris-Roubaix has 13 level railroad crossings and keeping trains from them for periods of time exceeding the slowest and fastest schedule is far too expensive for any organizer, no matter how diligent.
 

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surftel said:
Watch OLN it apears the train was a freight train carry some big round things....these type of trains are not on a schedule, only passenger trains are.

steel coils. ...Hincapie might have had some for some of that steel. ;)
 

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AJL said:
The marshalls stopped Boonen et. al. I presume the marshalls gave them the go ahead as well. I wonder where the marshalls were when Hoste et al. went through ?

The marshall - that guy in the red outfit let - PVP and the Disco guys trough.
 

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Cruzer2424 said:
I'm more concerned with the ruling. Isn't the rule that they're not allowed to cross if the barriers are down and the lights are flashing? (does anyone know where to find this?) If Hoste, Van Petegem and Gusev were all DQ'ed for a violation, and Boonen, Ballan and Fletcha crossed while the lights were flashing and the barriers were down as well, shouldn't they have been DQ'ed also?

I feel like they should either
a) DQ Boonen, Ballan, and Fletcha as well for breaking the same rule,​
b) Give back spots 2,3 and 4 to Hoste, Van Petegem, and Gusev (in an interview somewhere, even Boonen said his rightful spot was 5th​

Maybe they could reach a compromise somehow and award the ProTour points to Hoste, Van Petegem, and Gusev without awarding them the placings in Paris-Roubaix...

I'm not surprised by what happened but I do agree with you.
 

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gray8110 said:
Boonen's group was waved through by an official before the gates went up. The rules may have been violated in their case, but it was with the approval of the race official.

It seemed like the marshall in the red outfit looked both ways to check the tracks and let PVP, LH and Gussev trough. On the other hand, it might come down to what that marshall says about what happened because he could claim they just bulled him over and kept going.
 

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Exactly!

With the thrill of the pursuit, and adrenalin saturating their brain cells, you can not blame those three pro's at the top of their form, for running the train gate...I have done it too, even in practice rides! Still the rules are wise: prevent accidents and/or injuries/death- so we must all abide by them if we want to become better role models and minimize our risk/liability to those around us. I feel sorry for the Discovery team, for their brush with mishap and misfortune: Hincappie's busted headset-handlebar vs. fork failure, and the disqualification of their 2nd and 4th place rankings. Man...I would have been very upset...In a race of this caliber/prestige, I expect the organizers to anticipate and prevent a train from interrupting it. Yes, the train has millions of dollars/Euros worth of cargo, and the race failed to influence the train system brass to compromise, and either delay or cancel that particular train route, so as not to interfere with P.R. Oh well, maybe next year it will not be so!
Stogaguy said:
Rules are rules and I agree that the race officials were right to DQ Hoste, Van Petegem and Gusev for the railroad crossing violation. However, it stinks for those guys. They should not have been put in that situation. For that matter, if the train had been a little earlier Fabian Cancellara might not have been on top of the podium.

Maybe I am missing something, but I think the race organizers have some explaining to do. Did they not check the rail schedule? Why would the race route cross an active rail line so close to the finish? Was another route possible? If not, what about delaying or rerouting the rail traffic during the window of time that the race leaders were expected to hit that crossing?

Can anyone shed some light on this situation?
 
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rocco said:
It seemed like the marshall in the red outfit looked both ways to check the tracks and let PVP, LH and Gussev trough. On the other hand, it might come down to what that marshall says about what happened because he could claim they just bulled him over and kept going.
Now that's something I'd like to see replayed (if it was caught on camera). If the marshall waved them on - then the DQ is just wrong. But if it comes down to what he said - the guy will probably just go into cya mode.




Edit:typo
 

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AJL said:
Now that's something I'd like to see replayed (if it was caught on camera). If the marshall waved them on - the the DQ is just wrong. But if it comes down to what he said - the guy will probably just go into cya mode.

The guy in red absolutely stepped aside when PVP, Goose and Leif approached and then he stood firm with his arms out wide when Boonen, Ballan and Co. arrived.
 
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rocco said:
The guy in red absolutely stepped aside when PVP, Goose and Leif approached and then he stood firm with his arms out wide when Boonen, Ballan and Co. arrived.
In that case I really hope that Disco and Lotto win their appeals! What does the UCI expect from guys who have been racing for about 250km on cobbles with dust wipping in their eyes and lungs :confused: Give their placings back and fine them 5K euros as a warning against future repeats, then dress down that race marshall.
 
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