[Cromolyman]

I had an Axiom SL built in 2013. The LBS built it up with Campy Record 11. The bike was great except I was disappointed that my old '95 8 speed Record was a much more precise shifter. I chocked that up to progress.

After more B adjustments by LBS than I care to remember, I finally found a really good Campy mechanic that discovered the Seven's rear derailleur hanger is placed to work with Shimano/SRAM but not Campy. He contacted Seven and learned that all frames are shipped to the LBS with a Campy adapter. The problem is that the LBS that is the sole Seven shop in my city forgot to include it in the build. They also used the Campy front brake bolt instead of the one Enve provides. Braking is now much better no thanks to LBS.:mad2:

 

[Cromolyman]

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Today I had the adapter/spacer from Seven installed and...the shifting problem persists.

Am I alone in having Campy-Seven compatibility problems?

Edit: Add photos

 

[bikerjulio]

I'd like to see Sevens explanation as to why they think a spacer is needed behind the RD for an 11-speed system. Regardless, the first thing to check is the hanger alignment with a proper tool. Has that been done?

 

[Cromolyman]

Hanger alignment was the first thing ruled out. This seems to be the problem and, to me, a stickier issue to explain.

I'd like to see Sevens explanation as to why they think a spacer is needed behind the RD for an 11-speed system. Regardless, the first thing to check is the hanger alignment with a proper tool. Has that been done?

 

[bikerjulio]

Interestingly Shimano has 24-26 mm for "L" and 4-10 mm for "X" which is very close to the Campy spec. So, if you are correct the frame meets neither spec. I cannot see a couple of mm in the "L" dimension being of too much importance, in fact it's a benefit for running larger cassettes. Not sure I see either issue as responsible for a shifting issue. If you post this in the "wrenching" section you might get some more feedback.

Shimano Framebuilder Info - Pvdwiki

 

[Cromolyman]

As I understand it, the problem is with X being to far rearward not allowing for enough chain wrap. One of the solutions the "Campy" mechanic suggested was a longer chain with the only disadvantage of chain contact if I were ever to go small chainring (34t) with small cog (12t).

Edit: Thanks for the link. Things are really confusing now, lol.

 

[dcgriz]

Do I dare ask the obvious? Have you asked the LBS/Seven to take the bike and fix the shifting?

 

[bikerjulio]

Do I dare ask the obvious? Have you asked the LBS/Seven to take the bike and fix the shifting?

One problem as I see it, is that the story provided in the OP by the "good Campy mechanic" makes absolutely no sense.

For one - unlike what the expert told him, there is essentially no significant difference between Campy and Shimano frame specs - how could there be?

OP also talks about a "Campy adapter" when in fact an "11-speed" washer is what is shown. This is the only frame I've ever seen that needs to space out the RD for 11-speed which also makes no sense to me.

The LBS also suggests a longer chain will fix the problem. Really??

My interpretation of all this is that OP is barking up the wrong tree, and that he's the victim of a poor installation job. I'd be checking for cable routing and friction problems, as well as rechecking alignment and RD setup.

He needs a more competent mechanic IMO.

Or to read up on these things and do it himself.

 

[Cromolyman]

Do I dare ask the obvious? Have you asked the LBS/Seven to take the bike and fix the shifting?

I took my last ride for the season today and will be taking it back to the LBS to diagnose. As I've mentioned above, they have made a half dozen different mistakes not related to the shifting problem, but the possibility that it could be a warranty issue leaves me no choice. They said that the were going to throw a new cassette on it to see if that makes a difference.

To clear any confusion I may have caused, the mechanic that was recommended as a Campy specialist, measured the relationship of the dropout to the hanger and compared that to Campy specs. After finding that Seven might be out of spec, he called Seven and was assured there was an adapter that had been left off the initial build by the LBS and would ship one to him. When it arrived a week later he found that it was just a spacer and also could not figure out how that could make a difference. He installed it anyway and saw no change.

Bikerjulio, you're right. It doesn't make sense since the problem involves an upshift to one specific cog (fourth one up, don't know # of t). Insufficient chain wrap doesn't explain why/how all the rest of the shifts are fine and why it's less of a problem with a freshly lubed chain.

 

[bikerjulio]

since the problem involves an upshift to one specific cog (fourth one up, don't know # of t)

Could be as simple as an incorrectly assembled cassette, with a spacer in the wrong place, or the wrong spacer.

 

[dcgriz]

If it is just an incorrectly assembled cassette it should put to shame all the mechanics that have worked on the bike for not spotting such an elementary issue immediately just by looking at it.
At any rate, it's a 5 minute proces to disassemble and reassemble the cassette just to make sure.

 

[dcgriz]

One problem as I see it, is that the story provided in the OP by the "good Campy mechanic" makes absolutely no sense.

For one - unlike what the expert told him, there is essentially no significant difference between Campy and Shimano frame specs - how could there be?

OP also talks about a "Campy adapter" when in fact an "11-speed" washer is what is shown. This is the only frame I've ever seen that needs to space out the RD for 11-speed which also makes no sense to me.

The LBS also suggests a longer chain will fix the problem. Really??

My interpretation of all this is that OP is barking up the wrong tree, and that he's the victim of a poor installation job. I'd be checking for cable routing and friction problems, as well as rechecking alignment and RD setup.

He needs a more competent mechanic IMO.

Or to read up on these things and do it himself.

I agree on all points

 

[bikerjulio]

Thinking about this possibility again, it seems to me unlikely. It's hard to screw up an 11-speed record cassette.

 

[dcgriz]

Hard to believe but maybe the fourth cog is flipped (upside down)?

 

[bikerjulio]

Hard to believe but maybe the fourth cog is flipped (upside down)?

No, the offset spline pattern makes it impossible to flip a Campy sprocket.

I'm back to an install issue.

 

[DaveT]

Any resolution to the issue?

 

[bikerjulio]

Any resolution to the issue?

The issue was moved over to this thread, without a satisfactory (to me anyway), answer.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/record-shifting-problem-343272-2.html#post4779119

 

[Cromolyman]

The issue has been resolved in a sensible and prudent manner for one with more money than years. I'm not rich, but at 57, I don't know how many more strong years I have left. Not enough to spend anymore time enduring the seemingly endless excuses of that particular LBS.

So, I bought a Colnago C60 with Super Record from another shop.

 

[DaveT]

Well, that's certainly a fix for your problem! :thumbsup:

 

[Cromolyman]

At the risk of being perceived as a nut job, but with a desire above all else to be fair, I report the following.

In another thread http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/record-shifting-problem-343272.html I tell of transferring my Campy components from the Seven onto another frame as a test to try to zero in on the shifting problem.

It is true that the first ride of the components on the different frame was amazing. Upshifting that precise and instantaneous and downshifting with a shorter throw and with the shift completed simultaneous with the click of the lever. It was the Campy Record I was familiar with and met my expectations for the first time since the purchase in 2013. So I reasoned that the Seven frame was out of spec. and the reason for the poor performance.

Until the next day on the second ride. Shifting was down the crapper. Again. Downshifting to the forth sprocket was hit and miss, mostly miss, and the throw of the lever seemed longer and stretchier. Again.

Obviously not the fault or problem of the Seven frame. Apologies to Seven and thanks to those who have responded trying to help.