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Banned Sock Puppet
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Update: I am going over the deep end because of lockdown related nuttiness. I have decided to mess around with my 29er first. Now, I know there are going to be a lot of indignation that I am introducing a (gasp) mtb onto a road bike forum but hear me out. This is a investigatory phase 1.
I am going to replace my well designed and tested Shimano XT/XTR components with Chinese components from Sensah.
Currently, I have 2x setup. I am jumping to 1x and 11 speed. Got the cassette, chain and brake set. Waiting on the shifters. Will update after install and provide feedback. Besides,it can’t be any worse than SRAM.
What is so bad about SRAM? Their mountain components are excellent and their road components have drastically improved since they started with road stuff.

Man, if you are really that bored, why don't you just ride your bike more as in until you are so tired you're not thinking about beimg bored anymore? It's much cheaper.
 

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'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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15,582 Posts
Update: I am going over the deep end because of lockdown related nuttiness. I have decided to mess around with my 29er first. Now, I know there are going to be a lot of indignation that I am introducing a (gasp) mtb onto a road bike forum but hear me out. This is a investigatory phase 1.
I am going to replace my well designed and tested Shimano XT/XTR components with Chinese components from Sensah.
Currently, I have 2x setup. I am jumping to 1x and 11 speed. Got the cassette, chain and brake set. Waiting on the shifters. Will update after install and provide feedback. Besides,it can’t be any worse than SRAM.


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You don't have a clue about SRAM for one thing...and you need to just go ride your bike for another. But since you're going to do it anyway I am interested to see how the Chinese stuff works. And further down the road how it holds up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
What is so bad about SRAM? Their mountain components are excellent and their road components have drastically improved since they started with road stuff.

Man, if you are really that bored, why don't you just ride your bike more as in until you are so tired you're not thinking about beimg bored anymore? It's much cheaper.
You are right as to riding my bike which I am doing at dawn for a couple of hours. The bikes components upgrade or downgrade as the case maybe just to satisfy my itch to tinker with my bike(s). I am curious as to how the Chinese stuff works. As to SRAM, I don’t like the way they work or sound when you shift. Almost like something broke.


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Banned forever.....or not
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Doesn't an 7 & 8 speed Dura Ace rear derailleur have a different geometry than everything else, that is 8,9, or 10?????

"1997 was a very big year for Dura-Ace. The system went to 9 speeds, and that was the most publicized change. In addition, however, the entire Dura-Ace system was redesigned and made to be inter-compatible with other Shimano components."

"The major difference between pre-1997 Dura-Ace and the rest of the Shimano lines is the cable travel of the rear derailer. Old Dura-Ace used a shorter amount of cable travel per shift. This has to do with the geometry of the cable attachment. Since the cable moved a shorter distance per shift, effects of cable friction or inaccurate cable adjustment were magnified.

With the introduction of the 6-speed 600EX S.I.S. group, the cable attachment on the rear derailer changed, so that the cable had to move farther per shift. This change reduced cable tension, reduced the effects of cable misadjustment and friction, and generally made for a more forgiving system. The same geometry was adapted for 9-speed Dura-Ace when it was introduced in 1997. All subsequent S.I.S. groups match the travel of the 600EX, except the 10-speed "Shadow" XTR derailers and shifters, which have an even longer cable travel.."
 

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Banned Sock Puppet
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14,704 Posts
You are right as to riding my bike which I am doing at dawn for a couple of hours. The bikes components upgrade or downgrade as the case maybe just to satisfy my itch to tinker with my bike(s). I am curious as to how the Chinese stuff works. As to SRAM, I don’t like the way they work or sound when you shift. Almost like something broke.
Didn't curiosity kill the cat? :D

Interesting your take on SRAM. It does have a more defined click compared to Shimano's what has been described as an SBD fart smooth transition.

I'd be leery about how the Chinese drivetrain holds up, but hey, unlike a bike frame which can fail catastrophically, if it fails, the worst that would happen is that you may one day be limping home on a 2-speed. Depending on the number and grade of the hills on that 2-speed ride, I doubt you will be bored. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
My shifter and derailleur set is in USPS limbo. Can’t even track the damn packet even with registered post and tracking. Last I know is that it’s here in country. DeJoy is taking all the fun out of the anticipation of the package. It’s been a month and a half. Everything else is here. Cassette, Crankset and brake. Beyond bummed.


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Matnlely Dregaend
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Shipping has been really weird lately. I ordered Campy brake springs from Nashbar and they took 4 weeks, but the 4 orders I got from overseas got here in 3 days (each one!). I think it's a USPS thing because the overseas orders all come by DHL.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
You don't have a clue about SRAM for one thing...and you need to just go ride your bike for another. But since you're going to do it anyway I am interested to see how the Chinese stuff works. And further down the road how it holds up.
As somebody who has SRAM groups on two bikes, that is a statement that doesn’t make sense. I am talking about The group from a purely engineering perspective. I have been riding for more than thirty years now and in that time has ridden everything from 6speed to 10 speed. This includes Shimano, Suntour, Mavic, Campy, and yes, for a brief period, I had Simplex DT shifters on one of my bikes. All groups have their idiosyncrasies in how they work. The original 8 speed Campy Ergo was plain awful compared to any of the Shimano lineup. And I mean 105 vs Record. D/A was no comparison, just blew it out of the water.
SRAM groups have a tendency to be more finicky because their tolerances are all over the map. Even after 10 years, I still wince every time I shift a gear because it sounds like something broke. Getting the front derailleur adjusted properly to shift involves a lot of swearing compared to Shimano. I haven’t tried the 11 speed yet just because.


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Banned Sock Puppet
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SRAM groups have a tendency to be more finicky because their tolerances are all over the map. Even after 10 years, I still wince every time I shift a gear because it sounds like something broke. Getting the front derailleur adjusted properly to shift involves a lot of swearing compared to Shimano. I haven’t tried the 11 speed yet just because.
Which SRAM groups have you owned that you had so much trouble with?
 

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'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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As somebody who has SRAM groups on two bikes, that is a statement that doesn’t make sense. I am talking about The group from a purely engineering perspective. I have been riding for more than thirty years now and in that time has ridden everything from 6speed to 10 speed. This includes Shimano, Suntour, Mavic, Campy, and yes, for a brief period, I had Simplex DT shifters on one of my bikes. All groups have their idiosyncrasies in how they work. The original 8 speed Campy Ergo was plain awful compared to any of the Shimano lineup. And I mean 105 vs Record. D/A was no comparison, just blew it out of the water.
SRAM groups have a tendency to be more finicky because their tolerances are all over the map. Even after 10 years, I still wince every time I shift a gear because it sounds like something broke. Getting the front derailleur adjusted properly to shift involves a lot of swearing compared to Shimano. I haven’t tried the 11 speed yet just because.


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That's odd. My first pro team experience w/ SRAM was their first season in '05. Every road, mtb, and cx team I've worked for since then has been on SRAM. I've found it to be very forgiving compared to Shimano and I know why. Front derailleurs? Easy. I'm guessing my experience is a little more...uhhhhmmm...in depth than yours.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Which SRAM groups have you owned that you had so much trouble with?
Rival 10 speed on one and Force on another. The Force groupset is better compared to Rival but the front derailleur setup takes time and patience, more so than any other group. I am also worried about durability of the shifters.


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Banned Sock Puppet
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Rival 10 speed on one and Force on another. The Force groupset is better compared to Rival but the front derailleur setup takes time and patience, more so than any other group. I am also worried about durability of the shifters.
Why are your worried about durability? Feeling?
 

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'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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Rival 10 speed on one and Force on another. The Force groupset is better compared to Rival but the front derailleur setup takes time and patience, more so than any other group. I am also worried about durability of the shifters.


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Funny, those 2 shifters use identical internals. And the front derailleur? It's exactly the same set-up as any other 'normal' derailleur. Yaw is a little morr involved, and the new toggle link Shimano derailleurs are much more involved. None of them are difficult, there are just more steps in the process.

You're worried about durability? You have 10 speed parts and they're still working...why are you worried? They're already old.
 

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Banned Sock Puppet
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Funny, those 2 shifters use identical internals.
So what is the difference between Rival and Force? Does anything besides weight and cosmetics make Force "better"?
 

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'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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So what is the difference between Rival and Force? Does anything besides weight and cosmetics make Force "better"?
Those were the first gen SRAM. The difference was alloy or carbon for the lever. As for as how they function...exactly the same.

ETA: There might have been a difference in the trim on the left lever. I seem to remember the Force trimmed in the big ring and Rival in the small ring but it's been a long time. The right levers were the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Heard too many horror stories. Also, tactile feedback. Like they are going to break. They also need the internals debunked every two years or earlier if left in the garage in winter. Third, a friend of mine who is a uscf certified mechanic since 1980 hates to work on them because they need constant tlc


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Banned Sock Puppet
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Heard too many horror stories. Also, tactile feedback. Like they are going to break. They also need the internals debunked every two years or earlier if left in the garage in winter
I'd like to hear about these "horror stories". What happened? Do you know the people who had problems or did you read reviews? Did a shifter actually break?

As far as getting gunked up, that can happen to Shimano as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
People like you crack me up.
? Degunked. Friggin auto correct. I am giving you my viewpoint. I am giving the reasons why I don’t think that sram is the greatest thing since sliced bread. The shifters froze and I had to spend an hour cleaning the internal mechs and lubing.


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