Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I emailed Kinesis (see below) to confirm that it was the same as the Mongoose Bosberg and this is the email I received. I enjoy the facts so I thought I would pass it on for those who doubted it was from the same mold and as I suspected it was. $1900 (US) frame in the UK. Same bike complete with Rival under $1600 at Performance. :thumbsup:

Fait Accompli (look it up)


Email

Glad you like our frame!


Yes, it is the same as the Mongoose. We had alot of input on geometry and shape and Kinesis International developed the moulds and technology for the frame.


So, we buy them for the UK market and I design the graphics and of course they are free to sell the frame to other manufacturers [such as Mongoose].


It is possible to order the UK frame through www.chainreactioncycles.com or www.wiggle.co.uk


They both do good rates for shipping overseas I think.


Hope this helps.


Regards,




Dom


Manager/Designer
KinesisUK
 

·
Home Brew User!
Joined
·
2,810 Posts
Nice Work!

You have proven that two no name frames came from the same source!

From there we should all conclude that all asian made CF frames are the same and that anyone who pays more than $1600 for a 105 level CF bike is a fool! Regardless of the name on the bike.

If 10 forum members will all gave a "+1" will you consider your work here done and drop it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My purpose in posting this information transcends

my personal experience with the Mongoose. If you see what the guy said at Kinesis, he states that they helped design the frame but that the manufacturer has the right to sell it to whoever they please. That is a HUGE insight into how this whole process of rebadging works as it appears to be similar to "selling the rights" of intellectual property or designs.

It is amongst the most tangible proof I have seen to date that these frames are indeed EXACTLY the same and just rebadged with huge variations in pricing. It is the marketing/advertising that creates the PERCEPTION of quality differences.

There was and is a lot of conjecture about using the same mold but varying quality of carbon etc, but that isn't the case here. I think this is valuable knowledge that people can take with them when they are spending big $ on CF frames.

As far as you 105/Rival argument, show me the weights of the two side by side and I will prove to you they are not comparable. The new 105 is nice stuff, but substantially heavier which is the only reason for the major cost differentials within the Shimano line.

So this is not a "done" issue because there are many people here and on other threads that are interested in this issue and can learn from this debate.



Lifelover said:
You have proven that two no name frames came from the same source!

From there we should all conclude that all asian made CF frames are the same and that anyone who pays more than $1600 for a 105 level CF bike is a fool! Regardless of the name on the bike.

If 10 forum members will all gave a "+1" will you consider your work here done and drop it?
 

·
BrooklynVelo
Joined
·
1,426 Posts
Lazyrider said:
my personal experience with the Mongoose. If you see what the guy said at Kinesis, he states that they helped design the frame but that the manufacturer has the right to sell it to whoever they please. That is a HUGE insight into how this whole process of rebadging works as it appears to be similar to "selling the rights" of intellectual property or designs.

It is amongst the most tangible proof I have seen to date that these frames are indeed EXACTLY the same and just rebadged with huge variations in pricing. It is the marketing/advertising that creates the PERCEPTION of quality differences.

There was and is a lot of conjecture about using the same mold but varying quality of carbon etc, but that isn't the case here. I think this is valuable knowledge that people can take with them when they are spending big $ on CF frames.

As far as you 105/Rival argument, show me the weights of the two side by side and I will prove to you they are not comparable. The new 105 is nice stuff, but substantially heavier which is the only reason for the major cost differentials within the Shimano line.

So this is not a "done" issue because there are many people here and on other threads that are interested in this issue and can learn from this debate.
K you've lost me here. The Bosberg's list price is $2700. The Kinesis frameset list price is ~$1880 USD. The frame at Performance is on SALE. I fail to see how there is a huge difference in price anywhere.
 

·
Still waiting......
Joined
·
1,321 Posts
I'm in for a +1, please stop the madness
I'm glad you like your bike.
I'm glad you got a screaming deal on it.
I'm just sick of hearing about it.
Please stop the weekly postings about your bike and go ride it.

I could care less where a frame is made, if it's rebadged and sold under different names just doesn't matter to me.
 

·
Resident Dutchbag
Joined
·
11,864 Posts

·
duh...
Joined
·
9,658 Posts
godot said:
I'm in for a +1, please stop the madness
I'm glad you like your bike.
I'm glad you got a screaming deal on it.
I'm just sick of hearing about it.
Please stop the weekly postings about your bike and go ride it.

I could care less where a frame is made, if it's rebadged and sold under different names just doesn't matter to me.


+1 on ALL THIS
 

·
Home Brew User!
Joined
·
2,810 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
When I got

the Mongoose, it was on sale for $1899 minus coupon and credits it was under $1600 for complete bike. So yes you are correct in that regard, but I never pay retail.

daneil said:
K you've lost me here. The Bosberg's list price is $2700. The Kinesis frameset list price is ~$1880 USD. The frame at Performance is on SALE. I fail to see how there is a huge difference in price anywhere.
 

·
BikerFox Wannabe
Joined
·
696 Posts
Forks

I like the fork on the Kinesis better.

Don't know why so many folks get so wrapped around the axle about this. Knowledge is always a good thing. Having been in the business for a while I've always been aware that stuff being sold by different companies often is made in the same place. Interesting to find out just how it happens in regards to design and production rights, etc, etc...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
freeloading

I think the right thing to do is buy the Kinesis. Kinesis designed the frame, and the guy who responded to Lazy's email seems like a good guy. Mongoose, and by extension Lazy (apt name), is taking advantage of the design time Kinesis put in. I would rather reward the designer, here, Kinesis. If you want cool products (not saying the Kinesis is cool), you should reward the designer. It's short-sighted to always look to save $100-200 by buying copycat frames, because you're removing incentives for innovation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That is a valid point and I

agree to a certain degree but even the Mongoose I got wasn't originally slotted for US sales. So I happened upon it by chance and had no clue until 2 days ago that it existed under another name. But that is the core of this whole "generic" bike argument. The lines are blurred between the perceived "high end" and other knock offs. In many cases they are identical and the builders are allowed to sell the design to whoever they want. Interesting stuff.

Kemmelberg said:
I think the right thing to do is buy the Kinesis. Kinesis designed the frame, and the guy who responded to Lazy's email seems like a good guy. Mongoose, and by extension Lazy (apt name), is taking advantage of the design time Kinesis put in. I would rather reward the designer, here, Kinesis. If you want cool products (not saying the Kinesis is cool), you should reward the designer. It's short-sighted to always look to save $100-200 by buying copycat frames, because you're removing incentives for innovation.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,022 Posts
Moderators Note

Seeing there was a locked thread on this, and you seem to just started another yet another one this gets the lock too. Start a third and appropriate action will be taken. Locked.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top