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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
A few years ago on this forum someone posted on what he called a "Ritchey Road Logic Saga." The Ritchey in question complained about cable guides that he found too shallow to hold cables properly and that the cable guides were on top of the top tube.

Fast forward to today: I have just received a Road Logic 2.0 frame that I ordered online. The cable guides on my frame are also on top of the top tube. In pictures of the frame online - on the Ritchey website, on bike shop websites, etc. - the cable guides are brazed along the underside of the top tube. I managed to find some photos of cable guides on top of the top tube, but these are rare.

In any case, my question is whether anyone here knows if the cable guides on the Road Logic 2.0 should be above or below the top tube. The previous thread from 2014 never concluded whether it was 'correct' for the cable guides to be on top of the top tube, and I want to determine whether my frame has been manufactured correctly.
 

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A few years ago on this forum someone posted on what he called a "Ritchey Road Logic Saga." The Ritchey in question complained about cable guides that he found too shallow to hold cables properly and that the cable guides were on top of the top tube.

Fast forward to today: I have just received a Road Logic 2.0 frame that I ordered online. The cable guides on my frame are also on top of the top tube. In pictures of the frame online - on the Ritchey website, on bike shop websites, etc. - the cable guides are brazed along the underside of the top tube. I managed to find some photos of cable guides on top of the top tube, but these are rare.

In any case, my question is whether anyone here knows if the cable guides on the Road Logic 2.0 should be above or below the top tube. The previous thread from 2014 never concluded whether it was 'correct' for the cable guides to be on top of the top tube, and I want to determine whether my frame has been manufactured correctly.
Two or usually three loops brazed on top of the top tube used to be standard for road bikes in the '80s ongoing. The trouble was sweat would drip on the top tube, salt would get caught between the plastic cable housing and the braze ons, paint would get chipped off, and they'd rust much faster than the rest of the bike. Well, I can tell you that's not true if you clean the bike up when lubing the chain.

Anyway, builders started running the brake cable under the top tube to avoid that problem, and the sweat would drip around the tube and rust those braze ons, too. So builders put one at each end of the top tube as housing "stops" and ran bare wire between under the top tube. It would not catch sweat and clean up easier.

Riders generally don't sweat all over the bike, usually just over the top tube, although I knew a guy once who rusted out entire frames. His sweat glands were primed from semi pro wrestling! He used to lose up to 6 pounds on a ride.

So ya gotta keep salt off the bike. Top tube guides are otherwise a great location. The knees don't swish by them pedaling. Running the cable inside the top tube is another alternative. Then, sweat collects at the entry and exit points, and before you know it, the damn cable is stuck in there forever, like on my brother's bike.

So don't worry. Guides on top work just fine on a skinny tubed steel frame. Just keep them clean and dab a little touch up paint on 'em when the paint gets nicked off. I'm still going fine on two bikes with 70K miles on each.
 

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When you say "on the top of the top tube" do you mean 12 o'clock or 11 o'clock?

Some bikes from the '70's had them at 12; today you'll find some put them at 11.

Functionally, it doesn't make a difference. From a practical perspective, at 12 if you tend to sit on the top tube or straddle the top tube when stopped, cable rub on the frame may damage the paint.

At 11, builders such as Richard Sach prefer the shape of the arc the housing makes as it routes from near the seat lug to the rear brake.

Other than that, it's more aesthetics.
 

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On my Logic 2.0 the rear brake cable guides are at the 5 o'clock position when viewed from the front, or right under the "Logic" decal on the left side of the top tube. Whether this is right or not I can't tell you, but it is where mine are located. FWIW I purchased the frame in 2nd half of 2014. It was part of a fresh shipment that came in at that time.

You could try looking in the Ritchey section and ask Ritchey_Guy the same question under the Ritchey Rep here to answer all your questions! topic. And the New Ritchey Road Logic topic has a lot of information on the frames in it, but it is 15 pages so it might take a while to read.
 

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When you say "on the top of the top tube" do you mean 12 o'clock or 11 o'clock?

Some bikes from the '70's had them at 12; today you'll find some put them at 11.

Functionally, it doesn't make a difference. From a practical perspective, at 12 if you tend to sit on the top tube or straddle the top tube when stopped, cable rub on the frame may damage the paint.

At 11, builders such as Richard Sach prefer the shape of the arc the housing makes as it routes from near the seat lug to the rear brake.

Other than that, it's more aesthetics.
For years, I thought DeRosa made a mistake. He offset the cable guides to 11 oclock back in the early 80s, if not before then. Sachs probably picked it up from some of the European builders. Sure enough, the cable makes a shallower arc coming out of the braze on, reducing the tendency to develop a crimp at that point. :thumbsup:
 

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There was another thread somewhere (maybe on another forum, maybe in the link you posted) about this being a mistake by Ritcheys fabricator. The cable is supposed to be run under the top tube. Mine is. As I remember, one person liked it that way though; made the bike unique. You need to check the cable ferrule fit and the cable routing, as it says in the link you posted. If you don't like it, return it now before the frame is built. You might want to call Ritchey to confirm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for this info! When I say on top of the top tube, I mean the guides are at 11 o'clock (if you are sat on the bike, facing the stem).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Many thanks, Fredrico. I've only had one previous steel frame - a mid-90s Basso - and it has the cable routing under the top tube, a position I like. Your advice about cleaning up sweat that falls along the top tube and cable guides is excellent. I'll be sure to wipe down the top tube after each ride on this new Ritchey Logic 2.0 frame.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
mfdemicco, I think the thread you're referring to is the one I linked in my original post, though I might be mistaken. What size frame do you have, by the way? I ask because I contacted a couple of Ritchey dealers and ultimately a representative from Ritchey to ask about the position of the cable guides. One bike shop - the one where I purchased this frame - told me that smaller Logic 2.0 frames have the cable routing on top of the top tube (at 11 o'clock). A couple of other shops that I contacted by email told me the same, and so did the Ritchey representative with whom I spoke. I asked why and the just told me that Tom Ritchey liked the cable guides on top - he didn't give any specific reason for choosing that location.

It seems, then, that the numerous photos online of the Road Logic 2.0 frame that show the cable guides below the top tube must be photos of medium- to larger-size frames. I did have a look around on Google image search and saw a number of Logic 2.0 frames with the guides on top of the top tube. I cannot usually tell the size of these latter frames, but that there are several photos of them does demonstrate that top-of-the-tube cable routing is not uncommon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Wanted to add that I did send Ritchey_Guy this question, but judging from his profile page, it looks as if he hasn't been active here since mid-November 2016. I may post under one of the other Ritchey threads you mention (and after your suggestions, I did read through them) to hear what other Logic 2.0 owners have to say about their frames.
 

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mfdemicco, I think the thread you're referring to is the one I linked in my original post, though I might be mistaken. What size frame do you have, by the way? I ask because I contacted a couple of Ritchey dealers and ultimately a representative from Ritchey to ask about the position of the cable guides. One bike shop - the one where I purchased this frame - told me that smaller Logic 2.0 frames have the cable routing on top of the top tube (at 11 o'clock). A couple of other shops that I contacted by email told me the same, and so did the Ritchey representative with whom I spoke. I asked why and the just told me that Tom Ritchey liked the cable guides on top - he didn't give any specific reason for choosing that location.

It seems, then, that the numerous photos online of the Road Logic 2.0 frame that show the cable guides below the top tube must be photos of medium- to larger-size frames. I did have a look around on Google image search and saw a number of Logic 2.0 frames with the guides on top of the top tube. I cannot usually tell the size of these latter frames, but that there are several photos of them does demonstrate that top-of-the-tube cable routing is not uncommon.
It would make sense to run the cable at 11 clock along the top tube on smaller frames. This would give slightly more room for a second water bottle to fit upright on the seat tube.

Not sure it would apply to yours, but on smaller frames the main triangle is often too small to accommodate two water bottles.

And hey, don't worry too much about sweat unless you ride flat-out all the time in warm weather. CRMO cable guides are tougher than nails. Touch up paint is the main line of defense. The paint gets worn off the inside of the guides by the cable housing from movements induced when braking, IME.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I also just found this quote from Ritchey_Dave from 2014 (from the New Ritchey Road Logic thread) explaining why the cable guides are located on top of the top tube on smaller frames. I guess prior to 2014 the guides were found on the underside of the top tube, but then relocated to the top of the tube:

"Cable guides were changed on the smaller sizes, a while ago, to enable a smoother cable line."
 

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I also just found this quote from Ritchey_Dave from 2014 (from the New Ritchey Road Logic thread) explaining why the cable guides are located on top of the top tube on smaller frames. I guess prior to 2014 the guides were found on the underside of the top tube, but then relocated to the top of the tube:

"Cable guides were changed on the smaller sizes, a while ago, to enable a smoother cable line."
Yes, that would definitely be true. The brake cable would make a tight loop between the rear caliper and end of top tube. We see it many times on small mountain bikes.
 

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mfdemicco, I think the thread you're referring to is the one I linked in my original post, though I might be mistaken. What size frame do you have, by the way? I ask because I contacted a couple of Ritchey dealers and ultimately a representative from Ritchey to ask about the position of the cable guides. One bike shop - the one where I purchased this frame - told me that smaller Logic 2.0 frames have the cable routing on top of the top tube (at 11 o'clock). A couple of other shops that I contacted by email told me the same, and so did the Ritchey representative with whom I spoke. I asked why and the just told me that Tom Ritchey liked the cable guides on top - he didn't give any specific reason for choosing that location.

It seems, then, that the numerous photos online of the Road Logic 2.0 frame that show the cable guides below the top tube must be photos of medium- to larger-size frames. I did have a look around on Google image search and saw a number of Logic 2.0 frames with the guides on top of the top tube. I cannot usually tell the size of these latter frames, but that there are several photos of them does demonstrate that top-of-the-tube cable routing is not uncommon.
55 or 56.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks. Maybe on that size the routing is run on the bottom of the tube? In any case, it sounds like cable guides on top of the tube are normal for small frames.
 
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