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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone looking foward to Saturdays Daytona 24 hour race?

This years field has got incredible line ups
given it is the Grand American Series.
http://www.grandamerican.com/Events/EntryList.asp?EventID=134

A few samplings

Rusty Wallace, Danica Patrick, Allan McNish, Jan Lammers
Scott Dixon, Dan Wheldon, Casey Mears
Andy Wallace, Butch Leitzinger, Tony Stewart
Paul Mears Jr, Mike Borkowski, Paul Tracy
Milka Duno, Marino Franchitti, Dario Franchitti
Adrian Fernandez, Mario Haberfeld, Scott Sharp

A lot of non-GA regulars, and a good mix of Open wheel, stock car
and European sportscar drivers as well.
 

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p9group said:
Anyone looking foward to Saturdays Daytona 24 hour race?

A few samplings

Rusty Wallace, Danica Patrick, Allan McNish, Jan Lammers
Scott Dixon, Dan Wheldon, Casey Mears
Andy Wallace, Butch Leitzinger, Tony Stewart
Paul Mears Jr, Mike Borkowski, Paul Tracy
Milka Duno, Marino Franchitti, Dario Franchitti
Adrian Fernandez, Mario Haberfeld, Scott Sharp

.
No kidding, the defending Indy 500 champ, last year's 500 rookie of the year, and the defending Nextel Cup champ. I'm always interested in seeing how the open wheel/IRL and NASCAR drivers do in races like this. Makes me wonder if we'll ever see drivers like Andretti and Foyt who could win in just about anything with 4 wheels, regardless of car type, track, etc.
 

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I don't know anything about 24-hour car racing. Can someone explain how it works?

I imagine it is much like the 24-hour MTB races I've done as part of a 5-person team. Each team member rode one lap, then repeated the process until the 24 hours were up. All laps were timed. At the end, the team with the most laps won. If teams were equal on laps, the team that had the lowest time won.

Obviously in cars, you'll do more than one lap. Is this the general idea?

Nice to see Danica in there. We had women on our team, too, and they kicked a lot of men's butts!
 

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mohair_chair said:
I don't know anything about 24-hour car racing. Can someone explain how it works?

I imagine it is much like the 24-hour MTB races I've done as part of a 5-person team. Each team member rode one lap, then repeated the process until the 24 hours were up. All laps were timed. At the end, the team with the most laps won. If teams were equal on laps, the team that had the lowest time won.

Obviously in cars, you'll do more than one lap. Is this the general idea?

Nice to see Danica in there. We had women on our team, too, and they kicked a lot of men's butts!
Pretty much that's it. Drivers share the duties, although not necessarily equally. You may have a driver that is much quicker in the dark, so he/she is used at night, or maybe the "ace" gets a bit more rest before double or triple duties for a big push at the end. Also, like MTB racing, there are different classes racing at the same time. Daytona Prototype is the "highest" and presumably fastest class, with GT and Grand Am next in line.

Besides lap times, reliability plays a big role of course as well as fuel mileage, tire wear and efficiency in the pits.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It is really cool that open wheel, stock car and sportscar champs
are all competing in the same Prototype race. its coming full circle, just like the old days.

I really do think Stewart is the closest to an Andretti or a Foyt, the guy can drive
the wheels off just about anything. When GA first hit the scene, most sportscar fans
were moaning and dis'ing the series, calling it Nascar lite, nascar sportscar etc...
Because it is owned by one of the France's I think J.C. France
HQ'd in Daytona.

I always liked Grand Am DP from its inception. Now that the series is attracting
good drivers and champions from all disciplines of motorsport is such great
affirmation for the series. Hopefully it will continue and we will have cross-over
from these other series, and sportscar racing will return to its hayday in the U.S.

24 hour auto racing is not so different from any other 24 hour sporting event, really.
Teams are comprised of usually 3, or 4 drivers per team that drive as fast as they can while trying to preserve the equipment to minimize failure. Any 24 hour contest is always a test of reliablity and speed combined.

Basically, the Daytona Prototypes are fairly identicle with predetermined spec's
for chassis, engine and body. There is room for innovation and engine performance
but the rules are fairly strict. Obviously big buck teams have an edge over the smaller budget teams, and it is evident in the speed differences. Usually the 24 hour race is split between the drivers in a proportionate way. Although some teams have one particular driver do more "stints" behind the wheel because usually he is the fastest.

Also, some teams will double or triple stint a driver during the night time hours, because that is his speciality, he may never turn a lap during the day. Every team utilizes a different strategy, but there is a similarity to the overall strategy, which is go as fast as you can, try to avoid any and all accidents, don't break the equipment, while completing the most laps in 24 hours!

The 2006 rules are here:
http://www.grandamerican.com/CONTENT/Docs/PDF/Rules/Rolex/2006/DP_Rules.pdf#pagemode=bookmarks



No, I never have been to the NW 200, although I have a few videos
with amazing action from Archibald, McGuinness, and (Jefferies, and dunlop - rip)
I will get there someday though, as well as the IOM TT.

Next to Isle of Man TT, the NW is my favorite race. I love real roadracing from the UK.
I competed in U.S. road racing for 8 seasons here in the states.
Once in awhile I get out to a track day. But miss the competition. too $$$$$
Not that road cycling is much cheaper!!!! lol!!! :D
 

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SteveCnj said:
Pretty much that's it. Drivers share the duties, although not necessarily equally. You may have a driver that is much quicker in the dark, so he/she is used at night, or maybe the "ace" gets a bit more rest before double or triple duties for a big push at the end. Also, like MTB racing, there are different classes racing at the same time. Daytona Prototype is the "highest" and presumably fastest class, with GT and Grand Am next in line.

Besides lap times, reliability plays a big role of course as well as fuel mileage, tire wear and efficiency in the pits.
Unlike MTB racing, where everyone uses their own bike, there is only one car, right? It should be interesting on driver switches, since someone like Danica is so small and light. With her you could run more laps on the same fuel, I would imagine. Hopefully the cars have adjustable seats!
 

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mohair_chair said:
Unlike MTB racing, where everyone uses their own bike, there is only one car, right? It should be interesting on driver switches, since someone like Danica is so small and light. With her you could run more laps on the same fuel, I would imagine. Hopefully the cars have adjustable seats!
They typically have a set of precut pads that they change for each driver, so they all fit on the same platform.

I think Danica is probably the most overrated driver going. She isn't terrible, but she isn't great either.

With a 2000 pound car, the driver doesn't make all that much difference weight-wise. 100 pounds of driver wouldn't make much of a difference. Assuming that the car has a 1000 hp engine, the hp per pound ratio doesn't change much. Say, 200 pounds for fuel, 200 pounds for a driver, 2.4 pounds per hp. With a 100 lb driver, 2.3 pounds per hp. A driver's skill will easily account for that.
 

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p9group said:
It is really cool that open wheel, stock car and sportscar champs
are all competing in the same Prototype race. its coming full circle, just like the old days.

I really do think Stewart is the closest to an Andretti or a Foyt, the guy can drive
the wheels off just about anything. When GA first hit the scene, most sportscar fans
were moaning and dis'ing the series, calling it Nascar lite, nascar sportscar etc...
Because it is owned by one of the France's I think J.C. France
HQ'd in Daytona.

I always liked Grand Am DP from its inception. Now that the series is attracting
good drivers and champions from all disciplines of motorsport is such great
affirmation for the series. Hopefully it will continue and we will have cross-over
from these other series, and sportscar racing will return to its hayday in the U.S.

24 hour auto racing is not so different from any other 24 hour sporting event, really.
Teams are comprised of usually 3, or 4 drivers per team that drive as fast as they can while trying to preserve the equipment to minimize failure. Any 24 hour contest is always a test of reliablity and speed combined.

Basically, the Daytona Prototypes are fairly identicle with predetermined spec's
for chassis, engine and body. There is room for innovation and engine performance
but the rules are fairly strict. Obviously big buck teams have an edge over the smaller budget teams, and it is evident in the speed differences. Usually the 24 hour race is split between the drivers in a proportionate way. Although some teams have one particular driver do more "stints" behind the wheel because usually he is the fastest.

Also, some teams will double or triple stint a driver during the night time hours, because that is his speciality, he may never turn a lap during the day. Every team utilizes a different strategy, but there is a similarity to the overall strategy, which is go as fast as you can, try to avoid any and all accidents, don't break the equipment, while completing the most laps in 24 hours!

The 2006 rules are here:
http://www.grandamerican.com/CONTENT/Docs/PDF/Rules/Rolex/2006/DP_Rules.pdf#pagemode=bookmarks
All the reasons you cite for liking the GA formula are the reasons I hate it. It's (mostly) just a spec series, like nascar. Boring to me. I haven't watched a Rolex 24 since the DP's came to be and I won't watch this year.

I much preferred Group C to the GTP class, I much preferred GTP to LMP, and I much prefer LMP to DP. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Penske LMP2 can compete with the LMP1 cars, but I'm not sure if they anticipate entering in '06 or '07.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I was a huge FIA Group C fan, the Mercedes C-9 and C-11, the Jaguar, the storied Porsches,
the Ferrari's, come on the V-12's roaring around the track!!!! Wow, I miss that class.

It was like F1 with full bodies. 1000, 1200 HP cars that were just so F***ing fast.

Races like the Suzuka 1000, Brands Hatch, the 24hr at Spa, the famous Nurbergring,
The Mille Miglia, the Tour of Sicily, Monza, Le Mans, etc... I could go on and on...

But lets face it, can't live in the past. ALMS series is just boring because Audi has had and still does such a strangle hold on the series. The outcome is 99.9% determined
before the races ever start. GA is exciting to me because the racing is close, by design or not, it good close, competitive racing.

I think your unwillingness to embrace it comes more from a emotional view than a logical view, see it for what it is, and and enjoy it for what it is. No it is not even close to the great days of Group C, or IMSA. But it is a good series in its own right.
I will be glued to the tv set, sorry you feel the way do Steve.
I think you are missing out on some good racing. Come on..give it a chance this weekend!

Plus I love Daytona.
I have been lucky enough to race there twice. I could write an essay on the
hallowed history of that place! :)
 

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Still a lot to learn....

Big Bad John said:
.

I think Danica is probably the most overrated driver going. She isn't terrible, but she isn't great either.

She might be overrated now, but she definitely has a bright future. She's one of the best qualifiers every week on the IRL circuit, but the same aggression used to qualify doesn't always lead to the best racing results.
 

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p9group said:
I think your unwillingness to embrace it comes more from a emotional view than a logical view, see it for what it is, and and enjoy it for what it is. No it is not even close to the great days of Group C, or IMSA. But it is a good series in its own right.
I will be glued to the tv set, sorry you feel the way do Steve.
I think you are missing out on some good racing. Come on..give it a chance this weekend!
No, I hate it because it is contrived. As you say, it is designed to promote close racing, and I'll add, at the expense of all else. No technical diversity, no visual diversity, even a great driver's ability is stunted by the rules. Just like in nascar.

Week after week nascar is lauded for so many cars finishing "close" together. Of couse they do, they are "competing" on an oval, at high speeds, with little speed variation, and lots of yellows to bunch up the field. 10 or 15 cars can easily fit within a one second time differential when they are traveling at 190mph as they cross the finish line after a yellow flag six laps from the end.

I don't mean to turn this into a nascar rant, but GA IS just an extension of the nascar mentality when it comes to rule making. Unfortunatly sportscar racing has been heading down that path for a few years now, but at least LMP presents some technical challenges and possibility of diversity, hence my mention of the Penske LMP2 project.

I love F1, but over the last five years, I've lost interest there as well, due to the same issues creeping into F1 rules.

The last real race series that exists is moto GP, a true prototype series. Where both technical development and rider excellence is rewarded. (But I still can't wait to see what Rossi does in the Ferrari next week at Valencia.)
 

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p9group said:
I was a huge FIA Group C fan, the Mercedes C-9 and C-11, the Jaguar, the storied Porsches,
the Ferrari's, come on the V-12's roaring around the track!!!! Wow, I miss that class.

It was like F1 with full bodies. 1000, 1200 HP cars that were just so F***ing fast.

Races like the Suzuka 1000, Brands Hatch, the 24hr at Spa, the famous Nurbergring,
The Mille Miglia, the Tour of Sicily, Monza, Le Mans, etc... I could go on and on...
That was real racing!! I haven't seen anything as good as that on four wheels since 1989. I would remove fairly important body parts to own one of the Silk Cut Jags. Those were truly great cars.
 

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Big Bad John said:
p9group said:
I was a huge FIA Group C fan, the Mercedes C-9 and C-11, the Jaguar, the storied Porsches,
the Ferrari's, come on the V-12's roaring around the track!!!! Wow, I miss that class.

It was like F1 with full bodies. 1000, 1200 HP cars that were just so F***ing fast.

Races like the Suzuka 1000, Brands Hatch, the 24hr at Spa, the famous Nurbergring,
The Mille Miglia, the Tour of Sicily, Monza, Le Mans, etc... I could go on and on...
That was real racing!! I haven't seen anything as good as that on four wheels since 1989. I would remove fairly important body parts to own one of the Silk Cut Jags. Those were truly great cars.
Pick up a copy of this month's MotorSport, (a U.K. publication). It has a nice Group C retrospective and comparison of the Jag and 962.

I'd even take the GTP days of Mercedes, Toyota, and Porsche. They had some epic battles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I love F1, but over the last five years, I've lost interest there as well, due to the same issues creeping into F1 rules.

The last real race series that exists is moto GP, a true prototype series. Where both technical development and rider excellence is rewarded. (But I still can't wait to see what Rossi does in the Ferrari next week at Valencia.)
__________________

I love F1 as well, and still follow it week in week out.

MotoGP is unbelievably, the best.
I too cannot wait to see what Rossi does in the F2004 Ferrari.
I really hope he jumps to F1 in '07

Man, you gotta just forego the contrived...rule changes...blah blah...stuff.
Your missing out on some good racing.
I don't think motorsport will ever return to the days of unbridled brute speeds and
unlimited budgets. So I think what you get is what you get. I appreciate todays racing,
as well as yesteryears.
 
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