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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bike and run; just started running. Of course, I always run facing traffic. When cyclists and runners meet, bikes should move over towards the center of the lane, right? As the runner, I'll go onto the shoulder if I can, but that's not always a safe option for me either.

I once came up behind a trio of jerks on bikes who had just "forced out" a runner and made him run in the middle of the road (there was no shoulder at all). They were actually complaining that he was running against traffic. Yesterday a guy on a bike yelled "wrong way" at me as he buzzed me as I was running on the edge of the shoulder.
 

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Get me to In&Out
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Yes you do run against traffic. At least that is the way it is supposed to happen. Just as you are supposed to ride with traffic, though it doesn't stop bozo's from riding on the sidewalk ever.
 

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NeedhamDave said:
I bike and run; just started running. Of course, I always run facing traffic. When cyclists and runners meet, bikes should move over towards the center of the lane, right? As the runner, I'll go onto the shoulder if I can, but that's not always a safe option for me either.

I once came up behind a trio of jerks on bikes who had just "forced out" a runner and made him run in the middle of the road (there was no shoulder at all). They were actually complaining that he was running against traffic. Yesterday a guy on a bike yelled "wrong way" at me as he buzzed me as I was running on the edge of the shoulder.
You are correct about directions of travel, I would assume the law would say the cyclists should move toward the center of the lane, and if that is not safe than yield to you, to allow oncoming traffic to pass safely. Unless I'm mistaken if the impediment to traffic flow is in your lane than you should yield to oncoming traffic. If the cyclist are worried about overtaking traffic they should move out and take the lane or stop altogether.
 

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hi, I'm Larry
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On Roads Yes, on MUT No, On bike lanes???

On roads, bicycles are required to behave as a vehicle. Just as cars give way to runners a bicycle should also.

On Multi Use Trails it is a different story. Most MUT have a keep right rule for all (bikes, rollerblades, runners) and passing should be on the left. (a pet peeve of mine are runners that insist on running on the left side or running 3-4 abreast on the MUT. I'm tempted to sharpen up the aero bars and do a little jousting)

On roads with Bike lanes, I'm not sure if runners are allowed in the bike lanes or not. It's may be a state by state call. Regardless, bikes should yeild to pedestrians even if the pedestrian is breaking the law.

NeedhamDave said:
I bike and run; just started running. Of course, I always run facing traffic. When cyclists and runners meet, bikes should move over towards the center of the lane, right? As the runner, I'll go onto the shoulder if I can, but that's not always a safe option for me either.

I once came up behind a trio of jerks on bikes who had just "forced out" a runner and made him run in the middle of the road (there was no shoulder at all). They were actually complaining that he was running against traffic. Yesterday a guy on a bike yelled "wrong way" at me as he buzzed me as I was running on the edge of the shoulder.
 

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When I'm running I get out of the way.

Imho, a runner on the left side of the road has a better view of oncoming traffic, can stop or change direction much quicker, and should accept responsibility for making the encounter as simple as possible for the cyclist and any cars on the scene. I do this when I'm running by getting off the road or quickly and decisively getting out into the middle of the road showing the cyclist the path I hope he'll take. In all but a very few cases this is very little inconvenience.
 

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"Just as cars give way to runners..."???

"On roads, bicycles are required to behave as a vehicle. Just as cars give way to runners a bicycle should also."

I certainly is never OK to run over a pedestian, but in Illinois, they certainly have no 'rights' on the road.

As for trails, here are the rules for Cook County (Chicago): Note - walkers/joggers on left facing bike traffic. (Also note 8 mph speed limit. This is what cyclists are lobbying for?)


Rules of the Trail

BICYCLE USERS:
Ride single file, keeping to the right of the trail.
Stay in your own lane.
Give warning before passing other trail users.
Obey all stop signs.
WALK all bicycles down overpasses where designated.
The trail is designed for a moderate recreational speed of 8 mph.

NO SPEED OR RACING PERMITTED
(Speed radar monitored.) Violaters will be ticketed.

WALKERS & JOGGERS:
Use the left side of the trail, facing on-coming bicycle traffic.



Multi-Use Trail Rules
Bicyclists and equestrians must stay on the designated trail. No off-trail riding.
Be courteous to other trail users. Bicyclists yield to hikers and equestrians. Hikers yield to equestrians. Give notice before passing other trail users.
Do not ride on unpaved trails when the trail is muddy.
Motor vehicles prohibited.
Recreational use only. No speed training. (8 mph maximum speed)
All trails are two-way. Stay in your lane. Give notice before passing other trail users.
Don’t litter. Please pack out more than you pack in.
For rider’s safety, helmets are suggested.
 

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hi, I'm Larry
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8 Mph????

My bike doesn't know how to go that slow.

On the MUTs around here they have a couple of 20 MPH speed limit signs posted at a couple of blind corners, other than that the speeds are unlimited. They do have keep right rules, unless passing. When passing the oncoming traffic and the person you are passing has the right of way. (You must slow down and wait for it to become clear before passing.)

I am fortunate, I have 20 miles of paved MUTs within 5 minutes of my doorstep. Unlimited speeds and very little traffic and use. Except where it passes the university. I use this stretch as a recovery period and am polite to the other users (good scenery in this section anyway). And then it's back up to speed.

If there were an 8 MPH speedlimit I doubt if I would ever use it. Plenty of quiet country roads a few minutes out. It's just you have to play in a little rush hour traffic to get there after work.


TurboTurtle said:
"On roads, bicycles are required to behave as a vehicle. Just as cars give way to runners a bicycle should also."

I certainly is never OK to run over a pedestian, but in Illinois, they certainly have no 'rights' on the road.

As for trails, here are the rules for Cook County (Chicago): Note - walkers/joggers on left facing bike traffic. (Also note 8 mph speed limit. This is what cyclists are lobbying for?)


Rules of the Trail

BICYCLE USERS:
Ride single file, keeping to the right of the trail.
Stay in your own lane.
Give warning before passing other trail users.
Obey all stop signs.
WALK all bicycles down overpasses where designated.
The trail is designed for a moderate recreational speed of 8 mph.

NO SPEED OR RACING PERMITTED
(Speed radar monitored.) Violaters will be ticketed.

WALKERS & JOGGERS:
Use the left side of the trail, facing on-coming bicycle traffic.



Multi-Use Trail Rules
Bicyclists and equestrians must stay on the designated trail. No off-trail riding.
Be courteous to other trail users. Bicyclists yield to hikers and equestrians. Hikers yield to equestrians. Give notice before passing other trail users.
Do not ride on unpaved trails when the trail is muddy.
Motor vehicles prohibited.
Recreational use only. No speed training. (8 mph maximum speed)
All trails are two-way. Stay in your lane. Give notice before passing other trail users.
Don’t litter. Please pack out more than you pack in.
For rider’s safety, helmets are suggested.
 

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rusa1586 said:
Imho, a runner on the left side of the road has a better view of oncoming traffic, can stop or change direction much quicker, and should accept responsibility for making the encounter as simple as possible for the cyclist and any cars on the scene. I do this when I'm running by getting off the road or quickly and decisively getting out into the middle of the road showing the cyclist the path I hope he'll take. In all but a very few cases this is very little inconvenience.
You are exactly right. If runners or other cyclists choose to go against traffic, then they must take care to avoid collusions with said traffic. After all, they have the best view of the traffic, so why would they expect me to turn around to look to see if it's safe, then dart out into traffic, in order to get out of their way?

There's maybe 12 runners and even fewer idiot cyclists in the whole world that actually see it that way. The rest don't give a damn and expect everyone else to get out of their way.

Personally, I am not interested in hitting anyone, but if I <u>know</u> there is traffic or if I <u>know</u> or <u>believe</u> it isn't safe, I hold my line. If the runner/rider does not move out of my way in this situation, I'll come to a complete stop and force them to avoid me. I will not put myself at risk.
 

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bimini said:
Most MUT have a keep right rule for all (bikes, rollerblades, runners) and passing should be on the left. (a pet peeve of mine are runners that insist on running on the left side or running 3-4 abreast on the MUT. I'm tempted to sharpen up the aero bars and do a little jousting)
The MUT I ride has it posted that joggers use the left, against bike traffic. I like it; I like it a lot. I prefer passing foot traffic that is facing me (and knows they're about to be passed) than foot traffic with their back to me (requiring an "on your left" and a quick prayer they don't step left).

I'm curious, why the pet peeve for runners facing you?
 

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hi, I'm Larry
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Because the rules are keep right

So I go right and they go left and thus you have a face to face standoff and a conflict that could hurt someone if you keep going. I normally just slow down to a craw until I figure out what the runner's next move is. I've even gone as far as doing a track stand until they are forced to jog around me. If they stuck to the keep right rules we would pass without conflict.

If the rules were different, then I would follow the different rules and we would not have a conflict.

I'm not out to hurt anyone so I slow down if the other persons next move is not clear. If it's a kid, or some casual walker looking at the scenery or even a dog on a leash blocking the road, I am not bothered. I slow down or stop, these folks often say "sorry" and I say "not a problem" and give them a friendly wave. Chances are, they are not paying any attention and just don't know any better. Just out for a casual stroll.These folk do not cause me a problem. It's the daily runners who run on the path every day and insist on running on the left, and surely know the posted rules of the MUT, but must choose to ignore them, that bother me. It's like they want to force a conflict. Yes, this aggrevates me. It's tempting to joust, but I know better and do the slow down thing and think quitely too myself "Butthead Dumba$$ Jogger". And then burn off the negative energy by taking it up a notch or two when I'm out in the open again. This is fine if its a interval day, but counter productive if it's an easy day.

JFR said:
The MUT I ride has it posted that joggers use the left, against bike traffic. I like it; I like it a lot. I prefer passing foot traffic that is facing me (and knows they're about to be passed) than foot traffic with their back to me (requiring an "on your left" and a quick prayer they don't step left).

I'm curious, why the pet peeve for runners facing you?
 

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Rules? Forget the stupid rules man!

Those runners can be your best MUT buddies if you can get over their lawlessness.

Sure they're breaking the precious local MUT rules, but they're doing it because it's a safer, easier, less stressful way for you guys to share the trail. Them going opposite traffic means that you don't have to say "on your left" and hope they don't move... they don't have to be startled by passing cyclists saying "on your left" out of the blue (or just buzzing by out of the blue, or making an unsafe pass with opposing traffic).... and you both are better protected from unexpected actions because you can see each other coming.

Why get all aggravated? Just move left nice and early, give em room, and crank on through (you can even hold your pace in many situations).

Seriously, all that frustration over... what? A rule? Dang, we're gunna have to call you Sheriff bimini :)






bimini said:
So I go right and they go left and thus you have a face to face standoff and a conflict that could hurt someone if you keep going. I normally just slow down to a craw until I figure out what the runner's next move is. I've even gone as far as doing a track stand until they are forced to jog around me. If they stuck to the keep right rules we would pass without conflict.

If the rules were different, then I would follow the different rules and we would not have a conflict.

I'm not out to hurt anyone so I slow down if the other persons next move is not clear. If it's a kid, or some casual walker looking at the scenery or even a dog on a leash blocking the road, I am not bothered. I slow down or stop, these folks often say "sorry" and I say "not a problem" and give them a friendly wave. Chances are, they are not paying any attention and just don't know any better. Just out for a casual stroll.These folk do not cause me a problem. It's the daily runners who run on the path every day and insist on running on the left, and surely know the posted rules of the MUT, but must choose to ignore them, that bother me. It's like they want to force a conflict. Yes, this aggrevates me. It's tempting to joust, but I know better and do the slow down thing and think quitely too myself "Butthead Dumba$$ Jogger". And then burn off the negative energy by taking it up a notch or two when I'm out in the open again. This is fine if its a interval day, but counter productive if it's an easy day.
 

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mohair_chair said:
...and expect everyone else to get out of their way.
Of course they do, because that's how the traffic laws work. Part of the usefulness of traffic laws is the assumption that everyone else knows them and will follow them. You have the same responsibility as any other vehicle on the road. If the impediment is in your lane (which is exactly where a pedestrian should be if using the road) then it is your responsibility to pass them only if it is safe. If you can't safely pass by them then you should stop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
on a public road, bikes=vehicles, runners=pedestrians

My question was just to clarify that as a runner (on a quiet country backroad), when I see a bike approaching, my behavior should be to get as far to my left as possible so the bike can pass in the same manner as a car would. I have the most time to react and the most options, including going off the road. So if a guy on a bike is bearing head down on me and waving me into the middle of the road...he's an idiot and my "out" is going to be to dive into the bushes, not the middle of the road because I know the bike is not going to choose to go off the road. If I follow his instructions, I lose my "out" if a car appears around a curve or whatever.
 
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