Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner
1 - 20 of 49 Posts

·
A wheelist
Joined
·
11,324 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
There's a new Sapim spoke coming out for retail/aftermarket - it's the CX-Sprint, a less expensive version of the CX-Ray.

Specs -

CX-Sprint - 1.2mm x 2.2mm
CX-Ray - 0.9mm x 2.2mm

And about 40% less money than the CX-Ray. So if you like the ease of building with bladed spokes (you can see any twist and hold the spoke from twisting) but don't care about the slight aero advantage of the CX-Ray then this is a decent cost saving.

I have some here on my desk. They look the same quality as CX-Ray but a wee bit more chunky.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43 Posts
The weight is ~334 gramms: 64 pcs, 260mm.

In the middle between D-Light (303 gramms) and Race (363 gramms).

Weight of Laser/CX-Ray : 273 gramms.
 

·
changingleaf
Joined
·
709 Posts
This looks like a really good option for building a great wheel and keeping the price down. Here's the info for that spoke: (a little lighter than the Sapim Race)

Similar to the CX-Ray but stiffer. Higher stiffness is due to more material and therefore the spoke is slightly heavier. But still the elliptic shape of 2,3/1,2 fits in all standard hub holes. Some professionals use the CX-Sprint on the drive side and the CX-Ray on the non drive side. This shall bring a more equal stiffness on right and left side in one wheel.

- No more extra hub hole design; the hub manufacturer's guarantee is unaffected.
- Aerodynamic eliptic spoke.
- Produced from high-tensile, fatigue-resistant 18/8 stainless steel conforming to the Sapim quality standard specifications.
- Special alloy treatment and sophisticated production.
- Diameter: 2.0 -(2.25 x 1.25) - 2.0
- Length: 135-310 mm
- Weight: 334 g (64 x 260 mm)
- Strength on middle section: 1430 N/mm2
 

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,409 Posts
IMHO, as well as my n00bie wheelbuilder opinion, I didn't see the advantage of building with bladed spokes. Yes, I understand the theoretical advantage of seeing when you're winding up. However, when I was working on truing one of my factory wheels, the bladed spokes on these wound far more than the DT Competitions I used for my build. In fact, they wound so much, I had to hold them while turning for fear they would deform.

In fairness, there could be other factors. I used oil on the spoke threads of my build and used DT Pro-Lock nipples. I have no idea if the factory wheels even had oil on the spoke threads which could have been a factor.
 

·
changingleaf
Joined
·
709 Posts
Yes, it would be virtually impossible to get a wheel up to proper tension without holding these blades spokes from turning. There is no amount of lube that will resist the friction at high tension. Since they are thinner than a round spoke they do twist much easier and because they are bladed the can be easily held in place with a bladed spoke holder while turning.
 

·
A wheelist
Joined
·
11,324 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The weight is ~334 gramms: 64 pcs, 260mm.
In the middle between D-Light (303 gramms) and Race (363 gramms).
Weight of Laser/CX-Ray : 273 gramms.
I've found some disjointed (ie: not all on the same site) info so I tried to ignore most of it.
 

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,409 Posts
Yes, it would be virtually impossible to get a wheel up to proper tension without holding these blades spokes from turning. There is no amount of lube that will resist the friction at high tension. Since they are thinner than a round spoke they do twist much easier and because they are bladed the can be easily held in place with a bladed spoke holder while turning.

Oh yes, they can definitely be held in place. I bought a couple of those Shimano specific wrenches with a spoke wrench at one end and a bladed spoke holder at the other. Who designed that thing? You have to buy two because you obviously can't use both ends at once! :mad2: However, they're cheap enough. It's just the idea.

My point from before was that there was very little windup with the standard 20/18/20 spokes - 1/8 turn or less.
 

·
A wheelist
Joined
·
11,324 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Oh yes, they can definitely be held in place. I bought a couple of those Shimano specific wrenches with a spoke wrench at one end and a bladed spoke holder at the other. Who designed that thing? You have to buy two because you obviously can't use both ends at once! :mad2: However, they're cheap enough. It's just the idea.
My point from before was that there was very little windup with the standard 20/18/20 spokes - 1/8 turn or less.
For most of us, the best feature of CX-Rays (and now CX-Sprint) is the ease at which we can deal with twist. Any aero benefit is a moot point. But of course you need something to hold the spoke and Sapim took care of that too (as did other sources). Mine is shown on my wheel tools page -
Mike T

BikeHubStore.com has them.
 

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,409 Posts
For most of us, the best feature of CX-Rays (and now CX-Sprint) is the ease at which we can deal with twist. Any aero benefit is a moot point. But of course you need something to hold the spoke and Sapim took care of that too (as did other sources). Mine is shown on my wheel tools page -
Mike T

BikeHubStore.com has them.

Your point is well taken, Mike. For me though, I did not find spoke twist objectionable. I used your flag method and backed off until the flags were where they started. Of course, some may argue there is the extra time to install and remove the flags.

My point from before was how much greater the twist is with bladed spokes.
 

·
A wheelist
Joined
·
11,324 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Your point is well taken, Mike. For me though, I did not find spoke twist objectionable. I used your flag method and backed off until the flags were where they started. Of course, some may argue there is the extra time to install and remove the flags.
My point from before was how much greater the twist is with bladed spokes.
Time? IMO those people who need tape flags to indicate twist should not be concerned about time. Those who need to be concerned about wheelbuilding time don't need tape flags.

I'm a hybrid - I'm not concerned about wheelbuilding time and I don't need tape flags. :D
 

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,409 Posts
Time? IMO those people who need tape flags to indicate twist should not be concerned about time. Those who need to be concerned about wheelbuilding time don't need tape flags.
Exactly.

...and I don't need tape flags. :D
Remember, you have been building wheels for how many decades? I'm a n00bie who just finished my first build, so I still need tape flags. :D

The big question, how many successful wheel builds does one need in order to graduate from n00bie to beginner? :D
 

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,409 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,482 Posts
Is the cross section oval or more rectangular?
I always found CX-Rays to be more rectangular with sharp edges.
I always prefer DT Aerolites as it seems to have nicer shape and better quality.
Never broke one, but have broken a few CX-Rays.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Thanks for sharing. It's good to know that we've more options.

I'll probably still stick to CX-rays because of weight altho' cost is painful.

I've built a few wheelsets with Lasers and had no problems with twist/windup (or flags) but did really take my time with the builds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,374 Posts
How do you guys hold round spokes from twisting (or actually just spinning), on a straight through pull spoke/hub?
 

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,409 Posts
I always found CX-Rays to be more rectangular with sharp edges.

I just went through examining and retruing my factory wheels with bladed spokes. Stress relieving is mighty painful with those sharp edges! Maybe I just need thicker gloves.
 
1 - 20 of 49 Posts
Top