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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
He's been a solid ITT guy in the Giro since 1997 and he won the ITT at the 2000 World Championships in Plouay, France.

His basic overall palmarès:

1997: Giro d'Italia - 13th and 1st in the ITTs and 5th on GC
1998: Giro d'Italia - 2nd twice and 1st in the ITTs and 10th on GC
1999: Giro d'Italia - 2nd and 3rd in the ITTs and 7th on GC
2000: Giro d'Italia - 3rd and 4th in the ITTs and 9th on GC
World Championships - ITT 1st place
2001: Giro d'Italia - 4th in one ITT and 4th on GC
2002: Giro d'Italia - 2nd twice in the ITTs and 23rd on GC
2003: Giro d'Italia - 1st and 3rd in the ITTs and 8th on GC
2004: Giro d'Italia - 1st in the ITT and 2nd on GC
2005: Giro d'Italia - 5th and 6th in the ITTs and 6th on GC
2006: Giro d'Italia - 4th and 5th in the ITTs and DNF
Tour de France - 1st in the ITT and currently in the yellow jersey.

Fact: He turned 36 last week on July 3rd

Fact: For his age, he's about the most competitive guy in the Tour de France since Joaquim Agostinho finished 3rd on GC in 1978 and 79 at the ages of 34 and 35. He was 1st in 17th stage (Alpe d'Huez) in 1979. Joaquim Agostinho started his career when he was discovered at age 25.

Fact: The oldest winners of the Giro are Fiorenzo Magni and Toni Rominger who were 34.

Fact: The oldest winners of the Tour de France was Firmin Lambot (1922) who was 36.

Fact: In the modern era the oldest winners of the Tour de France were Joop Zoetemelk and Lance Armstrong who were both 33.

Fact: Gontchar's results at the Giro peaked in 2004 when he was 33 yrs and 10 months old. As would be expected for his age his results at the Giro have declined over the last two years. He has been 4th, 5th, 5th and 6th in Giro ITT during the last two years.

Fact: At 36 he has just won his first ITT/any kind of stage in the Tour de France


I'm not saying definitively that he's doping but who doesn't find this situation to be very suspect? Even considering the fact that just about all of these guys are under some degree of suspicion, who doesn't find this situation to be exceptionally suspect?


...I'm preparing to be seared by an open flame in 5... 4... 3... 2...

EDIT: ...Oh and wasn't Gontchar caught up in that San Remo raid by the authorities during the Giro 2 years ago?
 

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You might be on to something,

Didn't Eki win a Olympic silver (should have been a gold) medal in the TT at 35? I wonder what he is on?

Didn't Joop Zoetemelk win the World road race at 41? I wonder what he was on?

Whatever it is I want some of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
surftel said:
You might be on to something,

Didn't Eki win a Olympic silver (should have been a gold) medal in the TT at 35? I wonder what he is on?

Didn't Joop Zoetemelk win the World road race at 41? I wonder what he was on?

Whatever it is I want some of it.

Joop Zoetemelk became the oldest World Cycling Champion in 1985, at the age of 38 years and 9 months and retired in 1987. Eki is right up there with Zoetemelk in terms of longevity at this point.

There's a big difference between a three week long grand tour like the Tour de France and a single day event like the Olympic or the Worlds. A race like the tour is way more demanding in terms of recovery day after day and that ability declines to the point where great performances in such a race become less and less probable. The stats/history verify this fact.

Who were the three oldest racers to win an ITT in the Vuelta, Giro or Tour other than Gontchar and what were their ages?
 

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I don't think that anyone thinks that SG will win the tour, he won one stage.

You are right, it is possible to win a The Olympic TT clean....Just ask Tyler

When Eki was 36 he beat Tyler, Ivan, Floyd, Mancabo, Levi, Azevedo, and Olano in a tour TT after coming out of retirement. I wonder what he was on then?

If you are crossing the finish line with your hands in the air, still winning past 35, or standing on the podium....chances are you have a good doctor
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
surftel said:
I don't think that anyone thinks that SG will win the tour, he won one stage.

You are right, it is possible to win a The Olympic TT clean....Just ask Tyler

When Eki was 36 he beat Tyler, Ivan, Floyd, Mancabo, Levi, Azevedo, and Olano in a tour TT after coming out of retirement. I wonder what he was on then?

If you are crossing the finish line with your hands in the air, still winning past 35, or standing on the podium....chances are you have a good doctor

I don't think Gontchar will win the Tour either. That's quite clear if you read any of my other comments in other threads. Your point about Eki has merit though he didn't win an ITT at the Tour at any age and didn't stop training full time while he was retired. It wouldn't surprise me if they all have good doctors.
 

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rocco said:
I don't think Gontchar will win the Tour either. That's quite clear if you read any of my other comments in other threads. Your point about Eki has merit though he didn't win an ITT at the Tour at any age and didn't stop training full time while he was retired. It wouldn't surprise me if they all have good doctors.
Don't forget Ekimov's track backgroung as a pursuiter. 1990 Amateur WC. Plus not so much as a whiff of dope ever, AFAICR.
 

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ultimobici said:
Plus not so much as a whiff of dope ever, AFAICR.
???

Eki went to the Russian state sports school, the same system that produced all those fast "Women" sprinters, swimmers, and weightlifters.

If you make a list of why you think a certain guy dopes, you can apply that list to most of the peloton.

It is like a Dr. Seuss book.....Good guys dope, bad guys dope, fast guys dope, slow guys dope.
 

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surftel said:
???

Eki went to the Russian state sports school, the same system that produced all those fast "Women" sprinters, swimmers, and weightlifters.

If you make a list of why you think a certain guy dopes, you can apply that list to most of the peloton.

It is like a Dr. Seuss book.....Good guys dope, bad guys dope, fast guys dope, slow guys dope.
Should have qualified my comment. Since he turned Pro....
 

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What I see is a record of outstanding achievement in time trials covering a long period of time. Why it should be shocking that someone with a record that excellent snaps off a terrific result is not obvious to me. As the examples of Ekimov and Zoetemelk demonstrate, it is not unprecedented for riders of this age to perform at a high level. And though I am inclined to the belief that everyone in the peleton is doping, I also think we should insist on a little more evidence of doping than victory. That is, I think we should insist on SOME evidence, when all you have here is mere suspicion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
harlond said:
What I see is a record of outstanding achievement in time trials covering a long period of time. Why it should be shocking that someone with a record that excellent snaps off a terrific result is not obvious to me. As the examples of Ekimov and Zoetemelk demonstrate, it is not unprecedented for riders of this age to perform at a high level. And though I am inclined to the belief that everyone in the peleton is doping, I also think we should insist on a little more evidence of doping than victory. That is, I think we should insist on SOME evidence, when all you have here is mere suspicion.

Because Ekimov, Zoetemelk or anybody else at 36 years of age for matter didn't win or dare I say dominate an ITT in any three week long grand tours let alone the Tour de France until Gontchar did. Perhaps this guy has won the aging lottery but I think it's worthy of some scepticism. People are entiteled to have their suspicions. I have no illusion that I'm some official authority in this matter where due process and standards of evidence should be required. I'm just a person who's followed cycling for a very long time and I can't deny what I'm seeing here. Again please look at the facts that we know to be true.

Fact: He turned 36 last week on July 3rd

Fact: For his age, he's about the most competitive guy in the Tour de France since Joaquim Agostinho finished 3rd on GC in 1978 and 79 at the ages of 34 and 35. He was 1st in 17th stage (Alpe d'Huez) in 1979. Joaquim Agostinho started his career when he was discovered at age 25.

Fact: The oldest winners of the Giro are Fiorenzo Magni and Toni Rominger who were 34.

Fact: The oldest winners of the Tour de France was Firmin Lambot (1922) who was 36.

Fact: In the modern era the oldest winners of the Tour de France were Joop Zoetemelk and Lance Armstrong who were both 33.

Fact: Gontchar's results at the Giro peaked in 2004 when he was 33 yrs and 10 months old. As would be expected for his age his results at the Giro have declined over the last two years. He has been 4th, 5th, 5th and 6th in Giro ITT during the last two years.

Fact: At 36 he has just won his first ITT/any kind of stage in the Tour de France
 

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I remember Gontchar testing positive for something at the Giro a few years ago. This morning on the Eurosport coverage they said there was some new doping issue with him caught on film in Italy but I haven't seen anything else about it yet. It may be the old cuaght on film stuff in Italy and just now coming out of court testimony or something.
 

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rocco said:
Because Ekimov, Zoetemelk or anybody else at 36 years of age for matter didn't win or dare I say dominate an ITT in any three week long grand tours let alone the Tour de France until Gontchar did. Perhaps this guy has won the aging lottery but I think it's worthy of some scepticism. People are entiteled to have their suspicions. I have no illusion that I'm some official authority in this matter where due process and standards of evidence should be required. I'm just a person who's followed cycling for a very long time and I can't deny what I'm seeing here. Again please look at the facts that we know to be true.

Fact: He turned 36 last week on July 3rd

Fact: For his age, he's about the most competitive guy in the Tour de France since Joaquim Agostinho finished 3rd on GC in 1978 and 79 at the ages of 34 and 35. He was 1st in 17th stage (Alpe d'Huez) in 1979. Joaquim Agostinho started his career when he was discovered at age 25.

Fact: The oldest winners of the Giro are Fiorenzo Magni and Toni Rominger who were 34.

Fact: The oldest winners of the Tour de France was Firmin Lambot (1922) who was 36.

Fact: In the modern era the oldest winners of the Tour de France were Joop Zoetemelk and Lance Armstrong who were both 33.

Fact: Gontchar's results at the Giro peaked in 2004 when he was 33 yrs and 10 months old. As would be expected for his age his results at the Giro have declined over the last two years. He has been 4th, 5th, 5th and 6th in Giro ITT during the last two years.

Fact: At 36 he has just won his first ITT/any kind of stage in the Tour de France
Eki won olympic ITT at age 38. Cippolini won world championships at age 36. Case closed.
 

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Case re-opened RE: Eki and Cipo

55x11 said:
Eki won olympic ITT at age 38. Cippolini won world championships at age 36. Case closed.
Eki won gold in the Olympic ITT at age 34 in 2000. Cipollini won the Worlds in 2002 at age 35 yrs and about 7 months.

(Of course I suppose you could argue that Eki actually won the Olympic ITT at age 38 in 2004 as well...considering he finished second to a well juiced Hamilton.)
 

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terzo rene said:
I remember Gontchar testing positive for something at the Giro a few years ago. This morning on the Eurosport coverage they said there was some new doping issue with him caught on film in Italy but I haven't seen anything else about it yet. It may be the old cuaght on film stuff in Italy and just now coming out of court testimony or something.
you are correct, rocco too................

Honchar named in doping probe

Time trial winner Serhiy Honchar is under a legal cloud in an Italian doping investigation, French daily Le Monde reported on Wednesday, the day the Ukrainian lost his yellow jersey. Honchar is accused of "possession, concealment and consumption doping products," during the 2001 Giro D'Italia.

The current T-Mobile rider was recorded discussing use of illegal products while he rode for the Liquigas-Pata team in 2001 the newspaper reported.

The Venetian tribunal at Bassano del Grappa was investigating Honchar and Italy's Davide Rebellin after both men were on a list of riders ex-prosecutor Paola Cameran was set to charge following her investigation into doping in Italy.

Get the full story @ Eurosport.
 
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