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Discussion Starter #1
I'm pretty committed that my next bike will be Ti. At 6'3", I have yet to ride a Ti bike, but I have my reasons for not wanting CF. I'm currently on an Al Salsa race frame.

I'm currently waffling between a Moots Vamoots (or CR or DR) vs a Seven Axion SL.

My problem is this - I have owned exactly two bikes in the past 20 years - a hybrid Felt and my current Salsa. I have no interest in buying a ton of bikes to try before I buy a Ti frame. I've got a few thousand miles on the current Salsa (been off the bike for a few years) but am pretty committed at this point.

I'm a clyde - current weight 225 with an expected target around 190. I'm not a crit racer, I prefer longer distances. I've had neck, shoulder, and lower back pain issues pretty much all of my adult life.

I have a local dealer for Moots as well as Seven. At present, I'm drawn a bit more towards Moots for one reason - I'm afraid I'd mess up a Seven order. With my current size and lack of experience with different bikes, I'm concerned that I won't be able to accurately depict what I want in a way that Seven will be able to deliver.

So here is my query - do you go with a custom Seven and hope that you can describe it appropriately, or do you stick with a (relatively) stock Moots knowing you can more easily flip the frame if it doesn't work for you? Build prices come out within a couple hundred $$ of one another...

Guidance appreciated...

59B
 

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I believe Seven still offers standard sizes (I think they call it "Signature Size") if you don't want or need a custom sized frame. I know they definitely offered standard sizes in the past. If I remember, standard sizes might cost a little less.

I've got a couple custom Seven's, and even if you ride a lot and know what you want, the options can seem quite daunting. Seven is pretty good at taming it all for you, and have a number of checks and balances along the way such that it is highly unlikely you'll end up with a frame you are unhappy with.
 

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Unless your proportions are way out there I wouldn't worry about flipping a custom Seven as compared to a moots.

I muse say your logic strikes me as strange and flawed. You're better of buying nothing than what's not just right so you can resell it.

And given back issues I'd suggest that finding the right fitter to help you is much more important than who makes the bike.
 

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Sure. By the way, if you want a metal bike and want to hedge your bets, money wise, definitely consider steel instead of ti. Roughly speaking the same level bike in steel is half price as compared to ti and every bit as good. The upside to Ti is generally a little lighter and it won't corrode but the slightly increased weight doesn't matter and unless you really neglect it and ride on salted roads corrosion won't be a factor with steel.
 

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This seems like a no brainer to get a Seven. They are very good in the bike fitting process, especially if you express your areas of concern with the Seven representative. You'll never look back.
 

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I went from a Scandium alloyed Salsa to a Seven. The bike is incredible. I thought I might mess up, too. Nope. I got an amazing bike. The stiffness of the alloy is there without the bite. Just communicate clearly with the fitter and the Seven rep. Titanium is a great choice.
 

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I think you'll find that you're not paying a ton more for custom over stock so why not get custom. That said Seven is a custom shop unlike Moots that does the majority of its business in stock sizes. Both are good bikes but if I were you I'd go custom Seven.

As far as messing up the spec, don't tell the Doctor what to do, let them measure you and check your flexibility and show them what you ride now. Show them how you ride. I think the way good designs get messed up is where customers start instructing the shop on seat stay spec, chain stay length or telling the shop not to make the bike flexy. Shops like Seven have built hundreds of frames. They know what they are doing.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
OK, so this is kind of a necro refresh.

It took a year to make a decision, but I finally decided on a Seven Axiom SL. SRAM Force Hydro group with 160mm flat-mount discs, compact crankset, Wi-Fli rear with an 11-32 cassette, pump peg, and a 3rd bottle mount. The bike will be built around an ENVE GRD fork and have clearance front and rear for 35c's and fenders.

The process was different than I expected, in a good way. My current bike contact points ended up pretty doggone close to Seven's recommended setup. The bar drop may be a little less, the head tube is slacker, and there will be a bit more length in the chainstays from my current Podio. All should add up to a more stable bike that should be far more comfortable on the roads I'm likely to be riding. Plus the ability to put on wider tires and ride a bit of gravel if I can ever find a gravel road longer than a driveway.

Just a few weeks and I'll have my new bike!
 

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OK, so this is kind of a necro refresh.

It took a year to make a decision, but I finally decided on a Seven Axiom SL. SRAM Force Hydro group with 160mm flat-mount discs, compact crankset, Wi-Fli rear with an 11-32 cassette, pump peg, and a 3rd bottle mount. The bike will be built around an ENVE GRD fork and have clearance front and rear for 35c's and fenders.

The process was different than I expected, in a good way. My current bike contact points ended up pretty doggone close to Seven's recommended setup. The bar drop may be a little less, the head tube is slacker, and there will be a bit more length in the chainstays from my current Podio. All should add up to a more stable bike that should be far more comfortable on the roads I'm likely to be riding. Plus the ability to put on wider tires and ride a bit of gravel if I can ever find a gravel road longer than a driveway.

Just a few weeks and I'll have my new bike!
The peg is a nice touch. Good set-up if your considering gravel use. Enjoy!
If your planning on 35's 650b wheels may be something to think about. But if not your still getting a nice set-up.
 

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I have an Axiom SL (but didn't when I first replied to this thread). It'll be comfortable and stable for sure. Seven definitely knows how to do that.

Mine is much more of a race bike than what you choose and I'm blown away by the stability (but it's still plenty responsive when I need it) and smooth road feel. I can just imagine how plush yours should be with more focus towards that.
 
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