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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a LeMond Zurich(carbon/steel version) and have decided to get a new custom bike.
I test road a Seven Axiom and a Serotta Legend and a Calfee.
I was surprised that the Axiom gave by far the smoothest ride of the three.
I generally go on club rides of 30-50 miles and an occasional century.
I have decided to get the Axiom. I wanted a Ti over a carbon bike since I think the Ti will be more resistant to damage (minor and major) than a carbon bike.
Does anyone have an experience with the Axiom or the Serotta? Any strong feelings about one or the other?
 

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That's funny. I test rode an Ottrot and an Axiom last year, and ended up buying a LeMond Maillot Jaune (same frame as your Zurich). I just liked it better, but that said, I thought they were all pretty sweet, the Ottrot in particular. I don't see how you can go wrong with any of those bikes.
 

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vitdoc said:
I have a LeMond Zurich(carbon/steel version) and have decided to get a new custom bike.
I test road a Seven Axiom and a Serotta Legend and a Calfee.
I was surprised that the Axiom gave by far the smoothest ride of the three.
I generally go on club rides of 30-50 miles and an occasional century.
I have decided to get the Axiom. I wanted a Ti over a carbon bike since I think the Ti will be more resistant to damage (minor and major) than a carbon bike.
Does anyone have an experience with the Axiom or the Serotta? Any strong feelings about one or the other?
What's wrong with the Lemond? Buying a $7000 dollar bike doesn't make a whole lot of sense, especially given the yearly mileage that you are suggesting. If you said, gee, my bike is getting kind of tired, or it doesn't fit right, and I'm doing 6000 miles this year and plan to increase it - go ahead and buy a new bike.
As far as seven and serotta, perhaps great frames, but you pay in spades for the image. Strong makes a custom ti frame for $2200. He's been building customs for a long time, and still seeks a fair price.
 

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What were the differences between the Seven and Serotta in terms of geometry and setup? Either bike should be great but you should probably try to understand exactly why the Seven was the "smoothest" before you make your decision. Could have just been the tires...
 

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vitdoc said:
I have a LeMond Zurich(carbon/steel version) and have decided to get a new custom bike.
I test road a Seven Axiom and a Serotta Legend and a Calfee.
I was surprised that the Axiom gave by far the smoothest ride of the three.
I generally go on club rides of 30-50 miles and an occasional century.
I have decided to get the Axiom. I wanted a Ti over a carbon bike since I think the Ti will be more resistant to damage (minor and major) than a carbon bike.
Does anyone have an experience with the Axiom or the Serotta? Any strong feelings about one or the other?
If you wanted to go custom and can afford it, why not?
I don't understand why others would like to steer you away from your decision :confused: I'll be the first one to say that buying luxurious things sometimes doesn't have rhyme nor reason.

I've been perusing the catalogue of Seven. From what I read, you can have the ride that you like - lively, smooth or stiff or whatever. It is not only about length of toptube/seattube, bb height or angles. I bet Serrota does that too. So it'll all come down to customer service... And the waiting time :mad:
 

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Be careful with choosing the stiffness/etc with the Seven, I've heard of people putting a 5 or 10 or something on the stiffness and ending up with a bike that was way too stiff or too compliant. Maybe you can have them mimick the settings given from the bike you test rode or something.

Anyway, if you haven't already put in your order for the Seven, it wouldn't hurt to try a Moots. The Vamoots is cheaper than the Axiom and I found it to have a nicer ride than the Seven I tried. In fact, I'm picking up my new Vamoots tomorrow morning. Super excited.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I am aware of the variations that can occur with the same frame from a manufacturer based on how stiff it is made. I have asked that the settings from the bike I tested be used as a starting point for the new bike. The Lemond is fine but I think I could be fit a bit better with a new bike. I also want to upgrade the components. I can afford the bike. So what the hell.
 

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vitdoc said:
I am aware of the variations that can occur with the same frame from a manufacturer based on how stiff it is made. I have asked that the settings from the bike I tested be used as a starting point for the new bike. The Lemond is fine but I think I could be fit a bit better with a new bike. I also want to upgrade the components. I can afford the bike. So what the hell.
Cool! What's the wait time on your Axiom?
 

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Dick Rhee said:
Anyway, if you haven't already put in your order for the Seven, it wouldn't hurt to try a Moots. The Vamoots is cheaper than the Axiom and I found it to have a nicer ride than the Seven I tried. In fact, I'm picking up my new Vamoots tomorrow morning. Super excited.
Almost the same day last spring that I got my Moots a good friend of mine got a Seven Axiom that he had been waiting for. His bike cost about $1500 more than mine, it's a nice bike, but I wouldn't trade mine for his. I know you'll enjoy yours, Dick. Congratulations and welcome to the "Moots Owners Club".
 

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Dick Rhee said:
Cool! What's the wait time on your Axiom?
This was last August 1, 2005
I was inquiring about a Seven I saw at a store. Seven was prompt in their response.

"Thank you for following up with the correct serial number. The number you have supplied indicates this is not a Signature Size frame. Please consult the folks at _______ for more information about whom the frame was built for, when it was built and what components they recommend using.



All of our frames are built to order. We do not have an inventory of frames available. As such, the price for a Signature Size and a Custom Kit Odonata are both $3,195. Our current lead-time for Custom Kit orders is 7 weeks. "




Regards,



Scott Rosenthal | Customer Service | Seven Cycles, Inc.

T: (617) 923-7774 ext. 39 | F: (617) 923-7757 | http://www.sevencycles.com
 

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Vitdoc,

I don't know why anybody on this board would dissuade you from a custom bike. I received my Seven Axiom in June and am ecstatic over it. The fit and finish is first class as is the ride. I also considered Serotta and Moots. I think that they're both fine machines. I thought the finish on the Seven was slightly finer than the Serotta, and I like the Seven process. If they tell you a bike will be ready a certain date, it's ready.

I know that there are many Moots' lovers on this board and they are nice bikes, but if I was spending that much on a bike, I wanted a custom fit.

By the way, I had mine painted red and outfitted with all Campy Chorus carbon for well under $7,000. There is a photo of it on the Seven message board.

Good luck in whatever you choose.

Casqui45
 

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For my money, I would get a moots, there is just something about they look that I love. The truth is you are going to be happy with either the Serrotta or the Seven as both are excellent frames.
 

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Get a Spectrum Titanium

Assuming you and I are in the same field. I would visit Tom Kellogg in PA. and write the trip off by going to a meeting at Wills or Wilmer. Both Serotta and Seven are fine machines, but I doubt Ben Serotta will be doing your fitting. I have never heard of a unhappy Spectrum owner, and the chance to work directly with the builder in every aspect including paint will make it a memorable experience not just another expensive purchase.
 

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vitdoc said:
I was surprised that the Axiom gave by far the smoothest ride of the three.
Curious - did you use the same wheelset on all 3 test bikes? If not, what were the wheels?
 

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vitdoc said:
I have a LeMond Zurich(carbon/steel version) and have decided to get a new custom bike.
I test road a Seven Axiom and a Serotta Legend and a Calfee.
I was surprised that the Axiom gave by far the smoothest ride of the three.
I generally go on club rides of 30-50 miles and an occasional century.
I have decided to get the Axiom. I wanted a Ti over a carbon bike since I think the Ti will be more resistant to damage (minor and major) than a carbon bike.
Does anyone have an experience with the Axiom or the Serotta? Any strong feelings about one or the other?
the Seven and the Serotta can be tuned to provide a wide range of ride characteristics. all you have to do is ask nicely. I have a Seven Alaris. my opinion: there is little meaningful difference between Seven and Serotta. you will likely be happy with either. Serotta's name has a bit more cachet (admittedly this is a bit subjective, and no one will ever scorn you for riding a Seven).
 

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casqui45 said:
Vitdoc,

I don't know why anybody on this board would dissuade you from a custom bike.

Casqui45
Call me frugal. I only questioned the need, not the quality of the seven. It just seems like spending money for the sake of spending money. But people buy subzero fridges, and wolf ranges, and Hummers, and all sorts of things that don't improve the way they cook or drive off road (if they cook or drive off road at all.)
I recommended a Carl Strong custom, if you recall at the bottom of my post. I particularly liked the idea of the Spectrum - but then that's getting pretty pricey for me. Lustful but pricey. BTW, Moots does custom builds for an additional $300, plus the wait.

Buy whatever pleases you. It's only money. There's plenty more out there to make.
 

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Moots Vamoots is actually more expensive than the Axiom

Dick Rhee said:
Be careful with choosing the stiffness/etc with the Seven, I've heard of people putting a 5 or 10 or something on the stiffness and ending up with a bike that was way too stiff or too compliant. Maybe you can have them mimick the settings given from the bike you test rode or something.

Anyway, if you haven't already put in your order for the Seven, it wouldn't hurt to try a Moots. The Vamoots is cheaper than the Axiom and I found it to have a nicer ride than the Seven I tried. In fact, I'm picking up my new Vamoots tomorrow morning. Super excited.

The 3/25 Vamoots is cheaper than the Axiom only if you purchase the standard geometry which is fine for most. But, a custom 3/25 Vamoots will be more expensive than the Axiom. $300 for a Moots custom job and $100 for a fitting job from either a Seven or serotta certified fitter. Add another $300 for a custom paint job and you're at the same price as a serotta legend ti.

:thumbsup:
 

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weiwentg said:
Serotta's name has a bit more cachet (admittedly this is a bit subjective, and no one will ever scorn you for riding a Seven).
One thing that really turns me off about serotta frames is the actual name of the company. As you said, it's all subjective but the name "serotta" sounds ugly and harsh to the ears. The ellis island entry guard should had anglicanized the name to something like Shelby or Sheffield or Shepard. These would have been much softer sounding names for a bike frame.

The name "Seven" is pleasant to the ears but somewhat overutilized. IMO, seven has much more cahet than serotta does when it comes to bike names. Just my opinion.

:thumbsup:
 

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casqui45 said:
Vitdoc,

I don't know why anybody on this board would dissuade you from a custom bike. I received my Seven Axiom in June and am ecstatic over it. The fit and finish is first class as is the ride. I also considered Serotta and Moots. I think that they're both fine machines. I thought the finish on the Seven was slightly finer than the Serotta, and I like the Seven process. If they tell you a bike will be ready a certain date, it's ready.

I know that there are many Moots' lovers on this board and they are nice bikes, but if I was spending that much on a bike, I wanted a custom fit.

By the way, I had mine painted red and outfitted with all Campy Chorus carbon for well under $7,000. There is a photo of it on the Seven message board.

Good luck in whatever you choose.

Casqui45
Moots does custom. You can get fitted by a Seven or serotta certified fitter and give Moots the measurements. It would be $300 extra dollars plus about $100 dollars for the fitting. That would put the 3/25 Vamoots frame at about $2800 and the 6/4 Vamoots frame at $3800 retail.

But Moots is more honest about the whole custom process than serotta is. Most cyclists out there with normal body proportions can perfectly dial in a bike fit by purchasing the right frame size and then adjusting the seat, seatpost and stem length. Many frame builders already have sizes that spaced out by 1cm giving the buyer a large number of frame sizes from which to choose from. Even a custom frame could not fit properly if the seatpost and stem lengths are off.

So, Moots offers a variety of sizes to fit most riders. And they also offer custom for those who need custom. But they don't shove custom down your throat as serotta does, and I like that.

:idea:
 
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