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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a set of Mavic Reflex SUP UB's w/Dura-Ace low flange hubs in 32 spoke 3 cross DT's. I converted them into 10sp just by buying the cluster and they work great on my Cannondale SuperSix.

Problem:

I bought these wheels from a Decathlon in Chambourcy FR around 1996-ish? I paid like FRF1.300,00 [USD$200]. I road them for a couple years for training and commuting. They were stored since 1999 until recently [last year] when I picked up road biking again. I cleaned, repacked the bearings and cleaned/true'd them up. Annoying, as it may sound, the front hub bearings are rattling while I ride, it's as if the bearings are falling on top of one another [no I'm not missing a bearing]. Everything is to spec. No play. Spins super fine and super smooth. I'm very experienced in repacking and adjusting bearings. I have every professional bike tool mankind offers, some are even rare [or rarely used LOL].

I need to buy a cone and bearing kit for these hubs. That's what we did in the olde days. I searched these forms to no prevail. So excuse me if this has been brought up a zillion times already.

Does anyone have a source on a rebuild kit for the Shimano Dura-Ace low flange [originally 8-speed version 7402?]

 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Dave Hickey said:
Thank you for the url, that was fast.

Issue at hand is the model of these hubs. These various cones on that site are complicated to interpret while a disclaimer states to do "research" and not e-mail questions unless necessary.

I'll have to figure out the size of the bearings some how, convert them into standard from metric [obviously for their purposes], as well obtain a thread gauge to determine thread bore and size on the cones.:cryin:

I'll survive. Sort'ov.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well I'm still researching and have come up with a place in England that lists the cones here. If I cross reference these cones at the other website, Loose Screw Bicycle Small Parts here the cones are not compatible due to soft rubber seals.

I'm really on the fence with this deal.:mad2:

The issue that's upsetting is my LBS saying they could probably source out the cones and bearings... but each time I ask they humm and haw. It's left to the internet and google'in with a credit card number.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Dave Hickey said:
It might be easier to find good condition used DA hubs and use them for parts...
Thanks for the suggestion.

I wrote the UK SJSCYCLES help-mail. Explained my situation. I don't know if they're even going to reply to be honest. To source out a set of Dura-Ace low flange hubs just for the cones and ball bearings is a lot of work.:( You have to take into account that to rebuilld these hubs shouldn't be more then $25 a set [incl. bearings, grease, cones, new axles]. I have about 34,000 kilometres on these rims, mostly wet paris weather on pretty harsh city roads. Has to be one of the toughest set of rim/spoke and hub combinations I've ever owned. Never broke a spoke or came out of true.

Hard to give up or chuck something just because you're not capable of finding servicable parts.

Someone has to know a part number or source. I know Loose Screws Bicycle Small Parts has their policy on "asking dumb questions" without doing your research but ...I think I've tried.

Cool.
 

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But why?

EverydayRide said:
I cleaned, repacked the bearings and cleaned/true'd them up. Annoying, as it may sound, the front hub bearings are rattling while I ride, it's as if the bearings are falling on top of one another [no I'm not missing a bearing]. Everything is to spec. No play. Spins super fine and super smooth.
Then there is absolutely no reason to replace anything. If you don't like the noise of the bearings touching each other (assuming that's what you're really hearing) then putting in a little heavier grease will stop it instantly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Kerry Irons said:
Then there is absolutely no reason to replace anything. If you don't like the noise of the bearings touching each other (assuming that's what you're really hearing) then putting in a little heavier grease will stop it instantly.
Thank you for your contribution. I went out today to another LBS and picked up some fresh Phil Wood Grease. I also discussed the issue. Their only advise was for me to bring in the wheel and have them mix-match cones and bearings to make due. Mind you, this is a pro shop? Dura-Ace and mix-match inferior quality parts to wing it? Don't think so. I opted to redo the over haul once more.



Actually it's the wear on the cones and inner hub race, here's the old lubricant, Phil Waterproof Grease.


Picture just taken during another over haul reassuring that it's not grease related


Inner race on hub, wear.


Cleaning with inspection of cones, bearings and misc. pieces


Repacked with new Phil Wood Waterproof Grease purchased just today at my LBS

End result, just overhauling the front hub is ...still a ball bearing noise, as if each bearing is tumbling on top of each other. It's ver loud when you're riding on rural roads with less urban traffic noise ...cling, cling, cling, cling-cling, cling. It's coming from the hub, not the spokes or rim or a loose eyelet protector on the rim or ...

Checked everything.

So, my thoughts are the cones are worn, bearings are worn too and that causing the tollerance between the bearing and surfaces [cones and hub race] to have some serious play.
 

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EverydayRide said:
End result, just overhauling the front hub is ...still a ball bearing noise, as if each bearing is tumbling on top of each other. It's ver loud when you're riding on rural roads with less urban traffic noise ...cling, cling, cling, cling-cling, cling. It's coming from the hub, not the spokes or rim or a loose eyelet protector on the rim or ...

Checked everything.

So, my thoughts are the cones are worn, bearings are worn too and that causing the tollerance between the bearing and surfaces [cones and hub race] to have some serious play.
Seems like you should be able to feel serious play in the hub. The tolerances between the bearings and races are primarily determined by the person assembling the hub, no?

I have hard time imagining a newly re-packed hub making the noises you describe.
 

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leon2982
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must be something else

making the noise. there is no way the bearings could be that sloppy. you would have slop when adjusting the cones. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
leon2982 said:
making the noise. there is no way the bearings could be that sloppy. you would have slop when adjusting the cones. :)
As PeanutButterBreath and you've suggested, => this would be the obvious answer wouldn't it?

Actually the cones are adjusted correctly. You can't feel any play what-so-ever. The wheel spins smoothly and once mounted on the forks and secured -> absolutely no play while attempting to jar the rim/wheel laterally.

To be more specific on wear indicators, there are 11 bearings on each side of this hub. If 2 or 3 bearings have been worn more then the other 8, that would leave the cone adjustment good on the 8 but leaving 3 bearings to travel with unrestraint play. You're actually adjusting your cone-bearing-to hub tolerance off 8 of 11 good bearings while 3 or so are in there for the ride. It could be as little as just [1] one bearing being undersized for that matter.

These wheels were stored for almost 10 years.

I'm bringing the wheel into another LBS and run it by them.

-> side note, at least my spelling better in this post. ....dayum, I have to proof read what I write more often!:eek:
 

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Dr. Flats a lot
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You pitted your races. You can see it in your photo.

It looks like your races are pitted in the 3 o'clock position. Hard to tell if this is lighting but they sure look pitted. Bummer. Hubs are trashed.
I think the cones were not set properly after your first repack, and you've pitted the races. It only takes one ride with misset hubs to trash them. Generally it's not setting the cones but the locknuts that gets folks in trouble. Even though they may have been set properly when you repacked them, if the cones and locknuts are not really, really tightened against each other, they will walk and trouble will brew.
You can sometimes repack the hubs using bearings in retrainers and you may be able to move the contact area a little and make them work better. Generally works better in theory than reality.
As for the other matters. 3/16th bearings will work fine. Perfectly matched bearings will give you the super smooth roll of a pro bike...but it's not at all necessary to properly set them up. Likewise any cones that work with 3/16th bearings will work from the bearing standpoint. The problem is them mating to the dustcaps. You often won't get as good a seal.
Sorry bub. Time for a new hub.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
zoikz said:
It looks like your races are pitted in the 3 o'clock position. Hard to tell if this is lighting but they sure look pitted. Bummer. Hubs are trashed.

Sorry bub. Time for a new hub.
I'm pretty religious on maintenance, but remembering clearly that this set of wheels was used in the worse riding conditions late February through May in france [paris]. It pisses a lot during that period. I would empty a litre or more of water from my frame after a daily round-trip commute to work sometimes. The bottom bracket, headset wheel bearings during certain periods would be overhauled as much as twice weekly. I'm not kidding either. To add insult to injury I was always heading east out of paris to work which was sun flower and beet fields on plains with driven wind and rain. If it was sort'ov raining in paris, by the time I reached Noise-le-Grand it was a pissing match.:cryin:

I preferred to ride to work then taking the RER each day, escaping the virtues of being packed like a sardine with a million people coughing over your neck. It would take me an average of 1 hr 40 minutes to travel to and from work each day. I lived in the 16th and near the bois de boulogne [porte maillot] The RER [if caught on time] was a 44 minute ride. You had a 20 minute walk to it and a 20 minute to get to the door. It was a wash [no pun intended].

I think the pitting came from 30,000 something kilometres in 3 years of pissy conditions across a great city each day. Time to buy a new front hub and a relacing job.

Here's a video below of the sound.

Cheers.



<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="https://i236.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=https://vid236.photobucket.com/albums/ff207/Medcorp/Cannondale%20SuperSix%202009/MVI_2944.flv">
 

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Dr. Flats a lot
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I'm glad you got plenty of miles out of them. Video sounded like pitting as well. Here's where I think the pitting is. I find working on hubs really anxiety provoking because it is so easy to do this. If you're using your wheels a lot in wet conditions, I'd really look into something with cartridge bearings.
 

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Late to the thread, but I'll share your frustration with the search for correct bearings. I have a unused bare Ultegra front hub shell that I'd like to get a complete axle kit for. Trying to figure out the model numbers, measure the bearing surface height, etc. is a nightmare.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Jesse D Smith said:
Late to the thread, but I'll share your frustration with the search for correct bearings...
I've e-mailed several sources with the help of people on this thread, all of which have been extremely helpful. If I get any feed back from a vendor or a bike shop on a rebuild kit it'll be posted here in this thread for you.

As well, if you go to Bicycle Wheel Warehouse and search for a set of training rims, you'll see that they get pricey if you're into Dura-Ace and 32 spoke strength with reliability. This is the reason why I wanted to hang onto my Mavic SUP rims with low flange Dura-Ace hubs on DT 3 cross. To me, the rims are actually irreplaceable. These ran around the $200 mark in 1997. Has anything really improved in quality since then? Doubt it. That why I wanted to hold onto them as long as possible.

zoikz,

Thanks for all the info and to everyone else in this thread who contributed.

Big shot of hub race wear.
 

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Bike Dude
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Great info PeanutButterbreath. Thanks to this site I was able to get bearings and cones from www.jensonusa.com and redo my 105 and Ultegra hubs as well as my SO's Acera X cones (yes, way old pieces on Trek Multi Track).
www.bikeparts.com is another great source for cones and axle sets.
 
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