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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Thought it’d happen at EuroBike, and it did:


Campy and SRAM: “What took ya so long?” 😀

But Shimano’s elimination of mechanical shifting in Ultegra and Dura Ace might annoy some ppl.

And, no 53/39-ish option in Ultegra anymore? I personally don’t use it, but, oy. 😕

That said, at least they put the 16t cog back into their main road cassettes (11-28, 11-30) instead of going for the 10t. That was probably a good choice that’ll make most riders happy. 🚴
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Campy and SRAM: “What took ya so long?” 😀
But Campy isn't wireless yet.

I imagine the hold up for shimano was perfecting wireless. Going 12sp was really no big deal, they already had that on the MTB side.

But Shimano’s elimination of mechanical shifting in Ultegra and Dura Ace might annoy some ppl.
That one is kinda surprising. Not that I care as I will never own a mechanical drivetrain again. But they ditched mechanical and kept rim brakes. 😲 Almost all new frames have gone disc, especially higher end.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I imagine the hold up for shimano was perfecting wireless. Going 12sp was really no big deal, they already had that on the MTB side.
For better or worse, 12spd road is a big deal... because that drives the upgrade cycle, aka cha-ching!! far as the component-makers go. 💵 💵 💵
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I meant no big deal.. as in not hard to do. It was already 'done'. They could've released a 12sp group a while ago, but were holding out to release it with wireless Di2.
I know, just keeping things in perspective. Gotta keep your eye on the 'big game'.

Which seems to be... add a cog every 4-5 years so ppl buy whole new drivetrains or even bikes, and ALSO make everything more complex, expensive, and 'motorcycle-like'... hydraulics, electronics, etc. etc.

The new DA group (no power meter or wheels) is $4,300-ish. Ouch.
 

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What's unfortunate is it's likely a very simple change to the software of existing 11 spd. Shifters to make them do 12. The derailers just move a bit less each shift, so no change require. All you really need is the cassette and a new chain. But they'll never do that.
 

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But they ditched mechanical and kept rim brakes. 😲 Almost all new frames have gone disc, especially higher end.
A lot of cyclists have or may get rim brake frames that they might want to upgrade. There're more rim brake than disc brake frames out there.
 

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For better or worse, 12spd road is a big deal... because that drives the upgrade cycle, aka cha-ching!! far as the component-makers go. 💵 💵 💵
The big one is going to be 14spd. We already know from Campy that with existing frames 13 cogs is not a problem but when 14spd comes, it will ultimately require a new frame/dropout design standard along with new wheels possibly.

And as another poster mentioned, current Di2 users are forced to upgrade if they want to go 12 because Cycling Tips addressed that point exactly in their review. Shimano doesn't want its products to be future proof. When the shelf life of that product cycle is done, they want you to upgrade.
 

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But they ditched mechanical and kept rim brakes. 😲
Surprising considering that the Dura-Ace line no longer has a rim brake hub.
 

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Shimano has made some very smart choices here.

Shimano was smart to have the rim brake version of the groupset. With the 12spd cassettes compatible with current 11spd hubs, then current 11spd users can upgrade to 12spd without having to buy new wheels. This is a HUGE plus to these users and Shimano... because there would be PLENTY of current highend 11spd owners (both rims and disc, but especially rim) who would be willing to upgrade to 12spd while getting to keep their highend 11spd wheelsets.

Not going for 10t cog was also a smart (and necessary move) to keep the 12spd cassettes compatible with 11spd hubs. On the road bikes, it makes little sense to have a 10t cog.

Sharing the battery between the front and rear derailleur is a smart move IMO. This allows for a bigger battery, thus extended charge. Setting this up is something you only need to one time on a bike and that's it, set and forget. The plus is that their front mech is elegantly small. I'm amazed how small their front mech is.

And from all the reviews on youtube, shifting both front and rear, but especially the rear, is faster and smoother.

I think Shimano will be eating some of Sram's lunch if Shimano prices their Di Ultegra 8100 right.

I'm told by a wheelbuilder that Shimano's new carbon rims are filament wound, so from a weight perspective their rims should be light. The wheelbuilder told me that these same rims were actually available to wheelbuilders at least a year ago.
 

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Sharing the battery between the front and rear derailleur is a smart move IMO. This allows for a bigger battery, thus extended charge. Setting this up is something you only need to one time on a bike and that's it, set and forget. The plus is that their front mech is elegantly small. I'm amazed how small their front mech is.
I think its kind of a nice detail that wiring the shifters in with the battery is an available option. I do not know though what the overwhelming consumer consensus regarding full versus partial wireless versus fully wired is but to me I like the option that they offer.

The no mechanical option still has me feeling caught off guard though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
That's what people said about 5 speed.
And what they said about 6 speed....
And what they said about 7 speed....
I realize that for many ppl, that’s dead-on.

But, as someone who rode a double century with 6-speed back in the day, and was seemingly ALWAYS finding that the perfect gear was dead-halfway between two cogs the entire ride (aka unavailable) … I can honestly report that I was never happy with 6-speed. 👎 🤬

That said, we do seem to be deep in diminishing returns land nowadays re: # of cogs, except for maybe use in 1x drivetrains.
 

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I think its kind of a nice detail that wiring the shifters in with the battery is an available option. I do not know though what the overwhelming consumer consensus regarding full versus partial wireless versus fully wired is but to me I like the option that they offer.

The no mechanical option still has me feeling caught off guard though.
I would say every serious cyclist is caught off guard with the lack of a 12spd mechanical.
This will mean Shimano will keep manufacturing 11spd mechanical groupset for the midlevel market.
 

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12 speed with an 11 cog is the same as 11 speed with a 12 cog... if you don't plan on riding the 50/11 very much, which is 99% of even serious non-professional cyclists. Who do they think is buying the 54 tooth ring besides pro teams? A 48/32 option (like Campy Chorus) would have been a better choice.

I am clearly no longer who Shimano is catering to. I hate everything this has to offer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The no mechanical option still has me feeling caught off guard though.
This disappointed me too. 😟

AND the fact that they did this not only for DA, but Ultegra, too.
 

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Both new groups are clear improvements, and the supply of older Shimano groups will be around for the mechanical shifting diehards.

FYI- check out the excellent Shimano GRX groups for your 11 speed, mechanical shifting needs. Really solid, and cheaper too. And you can run big cassettes for alpine adventures.
 

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Velonews had a pretty good review on the new Dura Ace and Ultegra. My wife bought a custom stainless steel Tommasini frame last year and has been waiting for over a year for this group to be released. Looks like it's going to cost almost as much as the frame did.

I think its a mistake to go all electronic on both Dura Ace and Ultegra. Ultegra has always been Shimano's bang for the buck group. Now its $2400. I guess they'll be selling a lot of 105? I'm glad they kept rim brakes. I like 53/39 chainrings, but I guess compact cranks are increasingly what people want.
 
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