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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Thanks to all those with suggestions on wheels before. I'm planning on getting these babys from bww:

700C Mavic Open Pro
Front Wheel: Shimano Dura-Ace 7850 8/9/10
Nipple Options: DT Dark Blue Alloy
Rear Wheel: Shimano Dura-Ace 7850 8/9/10
Rim Options: Black
Spoke Options: DT Revolution Black

Anyone know the expected weight? I'm going to be throwing on a dura ace 10sp cassette and mich pro3 tires.

I weigh 170, don't race, and if I've got the time, I primarily ride my mountain bike. However, I want a kick ass wheelset for my tarmac. The only issue is my fear of breaking spokes/nipples and the cost of replacements. I don't want to spend $20+ every month because I broke a spoke because I should not have gotten butted.

I do want a lightweight wheelset, but I'm not exactly gentle either. You might find my pedaling on a fireroad to get across a bridge, or even up/down curbs on a busy bike lane-less section. Are these things going to be delicate as hell & break, or should I not worry? Lets hear about the guys with butted spokes & alloy nipples. Btw, I'm not worried about the hoops or hubs, just the spokes & nipples.

Also, does bww offer discounts/coupons or anything? Out the door I'm dropping $500, wondering if I can get them cheaper? Thanks in advance.
 

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Butts and breaks

stumpy_steve said:
I don't want to spend $20+ every month because I broke a spoke because I should not have gotten butted.
Butted spokes are no more likely to break than straight gauge, and many would say that they build a better wheel because they are more resilient. IMO, saving 12g per wheel with alloy nipples and then sometimes riding on fire roads is a pretty poor tradeoff.

BTW, the weight savings on a DA (or Record) cassette is an extremely poor cost/performance tradeoff. There is zero performance improvement on offer, the Ti cogs wear much faster than steel, and the cost delta is quite significant. Don't fall for the weight loss demon: the only time these weight savings would approach being meaningful would be if you were a top level professional cylist who was a climbing specialist. It ain't you, babe.
 

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I've got those wheels from BWW except I have the DT Comp spokes.

I don't understand what you're saying. You're concerned about broken spokes and you're considering Revolutions? That doesn't make sense. You want Revs and you're going offroad? :eek:

I'm 185lbs (down from 200 ten weeks ago, yaaay!) and I went with Comps and aluminum nipples and my wheels are on my dirt road bike. It's a cx bike that I hammer on trails and gravel roads and I've used the bike with BWW wheels since early last summer (I have two sets - one with Ulteg hubs). I haven't had any problems and I don't expect any. I've had aluminum nipples on my mountain bike (and road and track bikes) for about, hmmmm, 12 years or so without one issue (and I weighed 200lbs).

You asked about weight - mine weigh exactly 1762 grams for the DA set (Comp + alum). I'm not sure how much weigh you'll save with Revs. To me it would not be worth it for any weight saving. By the way, my wheels are $399 on the BWW site.

My advice is - forget the Revolution spokes and, from my long-time experience you'll be ok with the aluminum nipples. If you're concerned, go with brass.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I guess I might have sent a mixed message. I've gone into the dirt maybe 4 times, and that was simply to get to a paved road. However, I don't want equipment that will limit me, so that's why I mentioned it.

Kerry Irons said:
Butted spokes are no more likely to break than straight gauge, and many would say that they build a better wheel because they are more resilient. IMO, saving 12g per wheel with alloy nipples and then sometimes riding on fire roads is a pretty poor tradeoff.

BTW, the weight savings on a DA (or Record) cassette is an extremely poor cost/performance tradeoff. There is zero performance improvement on offer, the Ti cogs wear much faster than steel, and the cost delta is quite significant. Don't fall for the weight loss demon: the only time these weight savings would approach being meaningful would be if you were a top level professional cylist who was a climbing specialist. It ain't you, babe.
Kerry,

I really appreciate your input. I would never, ever pay anything close to retail for a dura ace cassette - I totally agree with you. My mountain bike will never see xtr, either. I got a 7 mile old dura ace cassette, chain, and rear der. for $200 because my co-worker (fixie guy) built a road bike and found that he didn't like putting in long miles. So, I sold my 105/ultegra stuff for $100, so the entire upgrade cost me $100.

Mike T. said:
I've got those wheels from BWW except I have the DT Comp spokes.

I don't understand what you're saying. You're concerned about broken spokes and you're considering Revolutions? That doesn't make sense. You want Revs and you're going offroad?

I'm 185lbs (down from 200 ten weeks ago, yaaay!) and I went with Comps and aluminum nipples and my wheels are on my dirt road bike. It's a cx bike that I hammer on trails and gravel roads and I've used the bike with BWW wheels since early last summer (I have two sets - one with Ulteg hubs). I haven't had any problems and I don't expect any. I've had aluminum nipples on my mountain bike (and road and track bikes) for about, hmmmm, 12 years or so without one issue (and I weighed 200lbs).

You asked about weight - mine weigh exactly 1762 grams for the DA set (Comp + alum). I'm not sure how much weigh you'll save with Revs. To me it would not be worth it for any weight saving. By the way, my wheels are $399 on the BWW site.

My advice is - forget the Revolution spokes and, from my long-time experience you'll be ok with the aluminum nipples. If you're concerned, go with brass.
Mike, also appreciate the input. I think I'll stick with the aluminum nipples and comp spokes. Way more cost efficient upgrade. I can't seem to find that wheelset, even with the comp spokes, for $400. Are you talking about the ultegra hubs, or dura ace? Can you provide a link? Thanks in advance, and keep the advice coming!
 

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stumpy_steve said:
Mike, also appreciate the input. I think I'll stick with the aluminum nipples and comp spokes. Way more cost efficient upgrade. I can't seem to find that wheelset, even with the comp spokes, for $400. Are you talking about the ultegra hubs, or dura ace? Can you provide a link? Thanks in advance, and keep the advice coming!
Here's the OP/DA wheelset link but I see they went up $10 recently to $409.95 from $399. If you go with silver spokes then knock off $5. Mine have the red (oh yeah baby!) nipples for +$12.50 and black Comp spokes for +$10 more.

By the way....nipple material......I go for the red aluminum for their color only. The slight weight advantage means nothing to me and during years of use on multiple bikes (and many miles) I haven't had any problems with them. So I go for color alone (I can see Kerry rolling his eyes :) )

If you buy from BWW, I suggest asking Chris for the wider rim tape (16/17mm). With one of his wheelsets (I've had 4) the narrower one was sent and (for me) it didn't do an acceptable job of covering the spoke holes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Mike T. said:
Here's the OP/DA wheelset link but I see they went up $10 recently to $409.95 from $399. If you go with silver spokes then knock off $5. Mine have the red (oh yeah baby!) nipples for +$12.50 and black Comp spokes for +$10 more.

By the way....nipple material......I go for the red aluminum for their color only. The slight weight advantage means nothing to me and during years of use on multiple bikes (and many miles) I haven't had any problems with them. So I go for color alone (I can see Kerry rolling his eyes :) )

If you buy from BWW, I suggest asking Chris for the wider rim tape (16/17mm). With one of his wheelsets (I've had 4) the narrower one was sent and (for me) it didn't do an acceptable job of covering the spoke holes.
Cool Mike, thanks. The only reason why I'm going with the aluminum is because of the color, really. Sorry Kerry:D I normally would go all silver with colored nipples, but since the rim is black, it wouldn't look very good with silver spokes. So, I was actually thinking of getting red nipples, since the blue nipples are dark, they wouldn't show as much. Is there any way you can post a picture of your wheelset, since it sounds like I'm getting an identical pair? Thanks again, Mike.

So, I think I'm going with Mikes suggestion. Alum nipples, Comp spokes, DA Hub. However, keep the suggs coming, please!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Also, should I go with a radial lace up front, or 3x? Same price pretty much, and I've got radial on my aksiums.
 

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stumpy_steve said:
Is there any way you can post a picture of your wheelset, since it sounds like I'm getting an identical pair? Thanks again, Mike.
So, I think I'm going with Mikes suggestion. Alum nipples, Comp spokes, DA Hub. However, keep the suggs coming, please!
Here ya go Steve - Bicycle Wheel Warehouse Open Pro rims, DuraAce 7850 hubs (jewels inside & out), black Comp spokes, red alum nipples.
 

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I have three CX racing wheelsets built with Revolutions or similar (2.0/1.5 DB). One I built myself, two I bought well used (or at least built when 8 Speed DA and GL330s were available).

I've broken one spoke in two years, and that was when someone else's rear brake arm got into my front wheel. IME, Revs are not delicate.

Al nipples however, I avoid.
 

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stumpy_steve said:
Also, should I go with a radial lace up front, or 3x? Same price pretty much, and I've got radial on my aksiums.
That, like Rev spokes and alum nipples, is personal opinion Steve. I can't think of one good reason to go with radial. But that's me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Man, this is going back and forth from "avoid the aluminum nipples" to "avoid the butted spokes". I sent Chris an email @ BWW, and he recomended going with the comp spokes, alloy nipples, and even a DT RR 1.1 rim for my weight. And here I thought I wasn't fat... What do you guys think of that rim? I found they each weigh 25 grams less than the open pros (according to BWW), but they're more durable?
 

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stumpy_steve said:
Man, this is going back and forth from "avoid the aluminum nipples" to "avoid the butted spokes". I sent Chris an email @ BWW, and he recomended going with the comp spokes, alloy nipples, and even a DT RR 1.1 rim for my weight. And here I thought I wasn't fat... What do you guys think of that rim? I found they each weigh 25 grams less than the open pros (according to BWW), but they're more durable?
I wonder how many hundreds (or thousands) of wheels that businesses like BWW have built and how much feedback they have had from their customers, compared to how many wheels that us guys around here have had actual experience with? I very much doubt that someone whose reputation depends on their product and its recommendation would steer you wrong. It's in their best interest to get you on the best wheels for you and your purpose. I'd be happy with accepting his suggestions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Mike T. said:
I wonder how many hundreds (or thousands) of wheels that businesses like BWW have built and how much feedback they have had from their customers, compared to how many wheels that us guys around here have had actual experience with? I very much doubt that someone whose reputation depends on their product and its recommendation would steer you wrong. It's in their best interest to get you on the best wheels for you and your purpose. I'd be happy with accepting his suggestions.
Absolutely. I just find the differences interesting. I think I'm going for the dura ace hubs, alum nipples, mavic hoops, and comp spokes, unless I go with Chris on the DT hoops. I appreciate all the help everyone has given me. I'll post pictures when I get em.
 

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stumpy_steve said:
I'm going for the dura ace hubs
Mine were my first ever DA's. The first thing I did (even before their first ride) was to strip 'em down to have a good look inside. From their beautifully machined aluminum axles to their titanium cassette carrier they're a work of art. I'm impressed. Ultegra are fine in a utility kind of way (I have those too) but they're not in the same league. :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Mike T. said:
Mine were my first ever DA's. The first thing I did (even before their first ride) was to strip 'em down to have a good look inside. From their beautifully machined aluminum axles to their titanium cassette carrier they're a work of art. I'm impressed. Ultegra are fine in a utility kind of way (I have those too) but they're not in the same league. :cool:
Man, the ultegras are a hell ofa lot cheaper, but I figure I'm going to keep these wheels for awhile, so why not get what I want, right? Well, while I still have a job, haha.
 

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Mike T. said:
I wonder how many hundreds (or thousands) of wheels that businesses like BWW have built and how much feedback they have had from their customers, compared to how many wheels that us guys around here have had actual experience with? I very much doubt that someone whose reputation depends on their product and its recommendation would steer you wrong. It's in their best interest to get you on the best wheels for you and your purpose. I'd be happy with accepting his suggestions.
Interesting question.

I have personally dealt with hundreds of wheels. Maybe a couple thousand. Not builds though, just maintenance. However, many of those wheel had thousands of miles on them, often under careless users. Ridden in the rain. Stored over night in the rain. Transported thousands of miles on roof racks in all conditions. Or crammed into trailers -- not sure which is worse.

I know mechanics who have 10 times as much expeience, and I'm sure that there are others with more than that.

But that is the experience that soured me on aluminum nipples. They are fine to build with. They can last a long time. But they are simply more prone to corrosion, stripping and breakage. If I were building a no-holds-barred 1-2 season race wheelset, maybe. Otherwise, I'll pass. Lots of people have great luck with them. I'll save my luck for a rainy day.

And seriously, are we just taking people at their word because they are running a business? Seems a tad naive. Nothing personal against BWW but caveat emptor, anyone?
 

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PeanutButterBreath said:
But that is the experience that soured me on aluminum nipples. They are fine to build with. They can last a long time. But they are simply more prone to corrosion, stripping and breakage. If I were building a no-holds-barred 1-2 season race wheelset, maybe. Otherwise, I'll pass. Lots of people have great luck with them. I'll save my luck for a rainy day.
My experience with aluminum nipples on the wheels I've built or bought is good. I don't have the issues that you've experienced - not my old mtb wheels, now about 15 years old and now on my townie bike; not on my current mtb wheels; not on my board track bike; not on my two road bikes and my dirt road cx bike's two sets of wheels. Not on wheelsets I've built for others. No corrosion, no strippage, no breakage. If they were just for a "1-2 season race wheelset" I wouldn't use them either and I doubt any smart internet wheels sales houses would.
 

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Just pointing out that while you may be loyal to BWW, it is specious to insinuate that because they build and sell wheels, they necessarily have more experience than one can find on RBR.
 
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